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M3P VS BMW I4 M50
- Thread starter Futur3EV
- Start date
Candleflame
Active Member
wow even the base M50 without any options in australia is over 40% more expensive than a Model 3 Performance.
Candleflame
Active Member
To me BMW is like Bose stereos to audio. Crap tonnes of marketing, looks pretty, huge sales but to an audiophile…lags behind. Most number of used cars on the market of off lease vehicles. No one wants to buy one out of warranty. That should be a flag right there.
Add the fact that they purposefully went to a massive (non aesthetically pleasing) grill as a statement against Tesla and no grill EV movement…shows me of their dinosaur level thinking.
I’ve owned e39, e60, e70 X5 4.8i, F10…so I know a thing or 2 about Bimmer ownership lol.
Ever since moving to Tesla in 2016, it’s been a sheer joy for me and the family. The cars are now 98% on the road…not in the shop. My experience could be just one
the worst part is, if they would have removed the grill or given that its an ICE retrofit, just put plastic on it and spraypainted that with whatever the cars paintjob is.... it would have looked kinda really cool.
MasterC17
Active Member
Does BMW Motorsport ("M") not mean what it used to mean?
Clearly the hefty i4 M50 seems to have other priorities than being a track weapon or even a true back road scalpel I suspect. Like being a smooth, refined GT with good highway/Autobahn power. That's fine! But is this what all M cars have become now? Or are they just diluting the M brand for their EVs?
I haven't driven a BMW since the severely disappointing F30. I haven't driven any M car's newer than the E90/E92 though, and that generation was still a driver's car in my book!
Clearly the hefty i4 M50 seems to have other priorities than being a track weapon or even a true back road scalpel I suspect. Like being a smooth, refined GT with good highway/Autobahn power. That's fine! But is this what all M cars have become now? Or are they just diluting the M brand for their EVs?
I haven't driven a BMW since the severely disappointing F30. I haven't driven any M car's newer than the E90/E92 though, and that generation was still a driver's car in my book!
MasterC17
Active Member
They've been diluting the "M" brand for the last decade at least. E9X was the last good generation of 3-series. The F80 was good, but every F3X was garbage. They slap "M" badges on literally anything these days. They've completely lost their way and I wouldn't consider another BMW after owning literally dozens of them.
By all accounts the new M3+M4 are good cars, but they continue to get bigger and heavier. I just struggle with pricing as a well equipped M3 is pushing 6 figures. Lease rates used to be the way to go when buying BMW/Audi/Mercedes, but in the current environment I just have not seen the great lease deals BMW used to give out. I personally would be worried that in a few years resale on a $70 M50 could be rough from a depreciation perspective. I can't really write a car off as a business expense so...
I liked the previous gen/current gen M1 and M2, but I still felt for the money they were lacking steering feel and handling that other cars near that price range (Porsche) offer.
I personally think BMW dropped the ball a little bit with the M40/50. It really should have been built from the ground up on an EV platform.
I liked the previous gen/current gen M1 and M2, but I still felt for the money they were lacking steering feel and handling that other cars near that price range (Porsche) offer.
I personally think BMW dropped the ball a little bit with the M40/50. It really should have been built from the ground up on an EV platform.
Yea it's going to lose. That's why we need video. But it is "Ultimate Electric Driving Machine" according to BMW.
Yea I know"Mate it's the internet"
Didn't catch Randy's last name issue when I copied it. Maybe Randy likes Pabst Blue Ribbon. Doubt it.
Candleflame
Active Member
this annoys me too.
In the 90s/early 2000s you saw an M badge and you immediately knew you were dealing with something special.
There was no other way to tell because there werent any flashy fake airvents etc. The E36 or E46 M3 just looked like a normal 3 series, similar to a performance model 3.
Nowadays theres M badges on everything including M 216i. like.... wtf.
JustJohn
Member
I was just at an autox Sunday with the BMW CCA and had the chance to see a Plaid, Model 3P, as well as a a few Corvettes, M cars, and even a Ford F150 GT 150...
The Model 3 was probably stock and wallowed around like a drunken cow. I actually heard front sheet metal scrape on a hard technical section. The Plaid was simply too much vehicle for a 2nd gear course and M2 cars were the fastest lap times of the day with the exception of an M5 - driven by one of the Performance center instructors.
I'm sure someone will argue that actual lap times aren't relevant.
The Model 3 was probably stock and wallowed around like a drunken cow. I actually heard front sheet metal scrape on a hard technical section. The Plaid was simply too much vehicle for a 2nd gear course and M2 cars were the fastest lap times of the day with the exception of an M5 - driven by one of the Performance center instructors.
I'm sure someone will argue that actual lap times aren't relevant.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Maybe the M3P just had a bad driver.
Model 3s have certainly beaten BMW M2s at other, larger, autox events, generally with better drivers. For example:
teslamotorsclub.com
Model 3s have certainly beaten BMW M2s at other, larger, autox events, generally with better drivers. For example:
M3P wins SCCA Autocross National Championship
A Model 3 Performance just won a SCCA autocross national championship. The car was owned and piloted by David Marcus who beat out a variety of performance cars including the GT350, Evora, BMW 1M and M2. The winning car is the blue car in this pic. I am pretty certain it just has wheels, tires...
teslamotorsclub.com
Maybe the M3P just had a bad driver.
Model 3s have certainly beaten BMW M2s at other, larger, autox events, generally with better drivers. For example:
M3P wins SCCA Autocross National Championship
A Model 3 Performance just won a SCCA autocross national championship. The car was owned and piloted by David Marcus who beat out a variety of performance cars including the GT350, Evora, BMW 1M and M2. The winning car is the blue car in this pic. I am pretty certain it just has wheels, tires...
If you take a look at the class the M3P was put in, its not the same as a 3 series. It was just too dominant so they had to put it in a higher class. Pretty good for a fat electric car
MasterC17
Active Member
Er, actual lap times are very relevant. The Plaid is not going to ever be a great autocross car - it's too big and heavy. The Model 3 on the other hand is an extremely capable platform and has won numerous competitive autocross series. Just because you saw one Model 3 being driven poorly does not mean it's not a fast or competitive platform lol. In addition, body roll is not really indicative of a whole lot.
The fastest modified F80 M3 lap time I can find at VIR Full is a 2:06.6; I ran a 2:04.9 in my 2018 M3P.
Both my team and the other Model 3 Performance team that competed in the 2021 One Lap of America beat out a brand new M2 Competition (fielded by Michelin), and a modified F80 M3. One Lap of America
If you would like more lap times, I've run my M3P at nine road courses and would be happy to share. I think you will find the M2/M3 slower than you thought.
JustJohn
Member
I don't disagree at all. With the exception of one professional, this was an entirely amateur event. I haven't sat in an M car in about 4 years and it was an M6 at that. Not exactly autocross material either but absolutely glorious on the open road.
I have an MKV Supra and there is a driver (Jackie Ding) who is a really competitive MKV Supra driver on the Gridlife circuit. Talking dedicated track cars and he has won lots of events and can drive.
He bought an M3P and, aside from some suspension mods (coilovers, control arms, sway bars) he is stock. He drives his M3P to the events, races, then drives it home. Vs everyone else who trailers their dedicated track cars in. It's pretty impressive. You can find him on Youtube, RPM Performance
He bought an M3P and, aside from some suspension mods (coilovers, control arms, sway bars) he is stock. He drives his M3P to the events, races, then drives it home. Vs everyone else who trailers their dedicated track cars in. It's pretty impressive. You can find him on Youtube, RPM Performance
I would say the suspension on the Model 3 performance is a bit soft, and I'd prefer more "buckety" seats, but other than that pretty impressive.
@JustJohn Have you driven a Model 3 hard yet? Stock Model 3 suspension (M3P or otherwise) is soft and not well controlled when the driving gets tough. (My experience is with October 2021 built cars, I've heard the suspension has changed over the years.) Feels like a lot left on the table for upgrades to help with. On a smooth flat autocross course it might not make that much difference in lap times, if the driver is good and can adjust for the suspension's slow reactions, but there's probably some time to be gained from upgrades. (Note I'm just guessing, I don't have any autox experience to back that up, I'm mostly extrapolating from my past track day experience.)
On "real world" rough, uneven roads the stock suspension can get overwhelmed with the car's weight bouncing all over the place. Sounds like what you saw happen at that autox. I don't doubt it, but as others have said, don't discount the car as a whole just from the mediocre stock suspension tuning. The fundamental balance and control of this car feel really good. Put a good performance suspension on the car and I bet it'll rip, as others here are saying from experience. (I'm still waiting for the coilovers I ordered!)
Most automakers include or offer a legit sporty suspension upgrade for their performance models. Tesla doesn't for the M3P, it's basically the same suspension as a regular Model 3, which is nothing special. It's unfortunate but thankfully some aftermarket tuners have stepped in with good options, if you're willing to go that route. If you're not, and you want a performance car with a legit buttoned-down, well-damped sports suspension from the factory...I would steer you away from the Model 3.
On "real world" rough, uneven roads the stock suspension can get overwhelmed with the car's weight bouncing all over the place. Sounds like what you saw happen at that autox. I don't doubt it, but as others have said, don't discount the car as a whole just from the mediocre stock suspension tuning. The fundamental balance and control of this car feel really good. Put a good performance suspension on the car and I bet it'll rip, as others here are saying from experience. (I'm still waiting for the coilovers I ordered!)
Most automakers include or offer a legit sporty suspension upgrade for their performance models. Tesla doesn't for the M3P, it's basically the same suspension as a regular Model 3, which is nothing special. It's unfortunate but thankfully some aftermarket tuners have stepped in with good options, if you're willing to go that route. If you're not, and you want a performance car with a legit buttoned-down, well-damped sports suspension from the factory...I would steer you away from the Model 3.
JustJohn
Member
No, I haven't driven it hard as it's just my daily driver and was never intended (for me) to function as my "fun" car. I gave up on daily driving my modified cars years ago. I don't like pulling them down to work on. It's not a matter of "don't like it, don't drive it" so much as a case of intended use.
I have an E46 chassis getting modified more and more for track only use and a 454 equipped 69 Impala to sate my horsepower wants.
