There are some Youtube videos out there that really demonstrate the difference with adjustable coilovers, better control arms, sway bars, etc. To your point it would be nice if Tesla either offered, as standard, something like magnetic dampers with different drive modes, or an option. I had magnetic dampers on my C7 Corvette, Camaro, and Shelby GT350 and they are a game changer. With the Tesla software expertise, magnetic dampers could be a huge win. And they could sell a package like this on all their cars, not just the Model 3.
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M3P VS BMW I4 M50
- Thread starter Futur3EV
- Start date
@thill444 The new Palladium Model S has adjustable dampers, I assume they're magnetic. Though reports of how effective their adjustments are vary widely, so much that I'm suspicious they're not working right on many cars, and Tesla isn't really owning up to widespread issues yet. I haven't had a chance to drive any Palladiums myself yet though, I'm very very curious about how the suspension feels as reports are truly all over the map.
Honestly for the M3P I'd rather have very high quality traditional dampers than magnetic active dampers. I don't have as wide experience with magnetic dampers as you, I'm just basing that on test driving two other sporty 4 door EVs, the Mach-E GT PE with Magneride and the Polestar 2 Performance with Öhlins DFV (high end traditional dampers). The Magneride suspension felt very very good, had a very nice ride vs handling balance (with the disclaimer that I wasn't able to push the GT PE to its limits on my test drive route), but the Öhlins DFV had an excellent ride vs handling balance too and I liked how they felt even more. Not saying they were "better," just they were even more to my taste/preferences. Either would be a big upgrade over the stock M3P damping though. (Which is why I have Öhlins DFV on order...easy decision when there's not really such thing as aftermarket Magneride!)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They're not.
Still air- just like previous ones.
Lack of offering a magnetic suspension on the P is why I have an LR AWD with boost.
@Knightshade The springs are air springs, but are you sure the *damping* is also provided by air bags? I've never heard of "air" dampers on any car. (Which isn't to say they don't exist.)
Older Model S with air suspension did NOT have adjustable damping. At least not anything pre-Raven. (I don't think I've driven a Raven yet, newest loaners I've had were P100DL era.)
Ohlins are awesome. But the thing about magnetic dampers is the programming, as you have almost infinite options. I have decided on MPP coilovers for my M3P (which are made by KW). More on magnetic dampers here if you are every bored
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Adjustable air shocks have been around a long time
Max-Air Adjustable Air Shocks for Towing | Monroe Shocks & Struts
Designed to maintain level vehicle height, Monroe Max-Air Air Adjustable Shocks can be inflated or deflated as needed.
Yup- Pre-raven height was adjustable, but not damping.
Since raven both are adjustable.
That said- at a quick glance I actually find very very very little info on what tech raven and palladium are actually using to adjust damping... though I do see air mentioned overall in suspension descriptions and nobody seems to use magnetic (other than "I hope when it comes out they use..." threads)
If you can find a better answer would love to see it though.
JustJohn
Member
Adjustable air shocks are a helper air spring to increase or decrease the spring rate. Air isn't damping anything vehicle related unless they've magically increased it's viscosity.Adjustable air shocks have been around a long time
Max-Air Adjustable Air Shocks for Towing | Monroe Shocks & Struts
Designed to maintain level vehicle height, Monroe Max-Air Air Adjustable Shocks can be inflated or deflated as needed.www.monroe.com
Yup- Pre-raven height was adjustable, but not damping.
Since raven both are adjustable.
That said- at a quick glance I actually find very very very little info on what tech raven and palladium are actually using to adjust damping... though I do see air mentioned overall in suspension descriptions and nobody seems to use magnetic (other than "I hope when it comes out they use..." threads)
If you can find a better answer would love to see it though.
@milesr3 Thanks for posting that! I think that pretty much settles what kind of car the i4 M50 is. That review matches up with the test drive reports in this thread, and also the video reviews/comparisons I've watched.
The idea of a dual motor electric M hatchback is super appealing to me. When I first read about the i4 M50 I was definitely having some "what-if" regrets about not waiting to test one, as we just bought out M3P last fall. But now it's super clear the i4 M50 isn't the car I want, the M3P suits me much much more.
I hope BMW comes out with a true hard-edged electric M car at some point. The i4 M50 doesn't sound like it. Honestly it sounds more like my stereotype of an AMG Benz - big power, but with the upmost comfort and smoothness, zero luxury sacrificed. (At least for S and E classes - I've heard C AMGs have a different character but I've never driven or been in one.) Those big smooth powerful AMG cars are nice rides too but not my cup of tea.
The idea of a dual motor electric M hatchback is super appealing to me. When I first read about the i4 M50 I was definitely having some "what-if" regrets about not waiting to test one, as we just bought out M3P last fall. But now it's super clear the i4 M50 isn't the car I want, the M3P suits me much much more.
I hope BMW comes out with a true hard-edged electric M car at some point. The i4 M50 doesn't sound like it.
Honestly it sounds more like my stereotype of an AMG Benz - big power, but with the upmost comfort and smoothness, zero luxury sacrificed. (At least for S and E classes - I've heard C AMGs have a different character but I've never driven or been in one.) Those big smooth powerful AMG cars are nice rides too but not my cup of tea.
MaskedRacerX
Member
BMW was in such a rush to stick the M on something, but they should've waited, because once again, they've diluted it.
This car should've been like an i4 E-Sport or something, then when it was close to the TM3P, they could've said, "Look, even our sporty-ish sedan is close, wait till you see our M-car flavor".
This car should've been like an i4 E-Sport or something, then when it was close to the TM3P, they could've said, "Look, even our sporty-ish sedan is close, wait till you see our M-car flavor".
JustJohn
Member
This. I'm still in a holding pattern for somebody to roll out a 2 door coupe even if I have to give up some 0-60 time.
Mechanically staggered is fine, even if different diameter tires, because the front and rear have no mechanical connection. There is no center LSD which is where ICE AWD cars can run into issues with different diameter tires front vs rear.
However I agree it's still an odd and mostly undesirable choice for the i4 M50. From reviews it sounds like an appropriately-sized square setup might feel better for handling and launch traction, in addition to the practical benefit of tire rotation.
It's worth noting the M3P doesn't exactly come with a great wheel setup either. It is at least square though, and has good launch traction + handling balance (for a road car) from the factory.
Now that i think about it the vast majority of "normal" 4wd drive cars are square, it does tend to be more exotic cars that are staggered, and a BMW is a long way from that
. From the sounds of it, their traction control is poorer than tesla, but maybe that's due to this bring their first 4wd electric.New to the forum and have been lurking for a few weeks (thanks for all the insight). I thought I'd share my positive experience with both of these EVs.
I attended to MetLife UDE and drove the i4 m50 for 10 laps. Being a BMW guy, I fell in love. I realize 10 laps is not the 400 miles I was able to spend with the M3.
The next two days I rented a model 3 tesla from turo. I had a one night get away that was about 180 miles each way. I realize this is subjective and my needs are different.
BMW pros
BMW cons
Tesla - pros
Overall, I feel Tesla is like apple. You are buying into their ecosystem. While I don’t plan on many 200 plus mile trips, I also wouldn’t want to not have a fast DC charger on my route. If Tesla opens up their supercharger network to non Tesla, like they did in a couple countries, and it charges at the max wattage, BMW would be my choice. Otherwise, I would get a Tesla and keep it until the non Tesla fast charging network expands.
It was a fun weekend!
I attended to MetLife UDE and drove the i4 m50 for 10 laps. Being a BMW guy, I fell in love. I realize 10 laps is not the 400 miles I was able to spend with the M3.
The next two days I rented a model 3 tesla from turo. I had a one night get away that was about 180 miles each way. I realize this is subjective and my needs are different.
BMW pros
- Love the BMW. Yes you can feel the weight but the car is great. Acceleration, braking, handling, etc.
- Interior - while not MB or Audi, much nicer than Tesla. Reminds me of my old 4 series.
- Miles per charge are higher than stated according to Edmunds. Of course, I have no first hand knowledge of this. And put it near a Tesla long range
BMW cons
- Dc fast Charging network is not robust. Simply could not take this car on this trip without major inconveniences.
- Exterior. I don't mind the grill. Its the rest of the car that just says "blah". However, it is a better "blah" than M3.
Tesla - pros
- I kind of like the simplicity of interior. It is not as luxurious as BMW but the simple modern design is attractive.
- Air vent control was cool.
- Tesla fast charging network is extensive. Planning another trip that is 400 miles each way and not worried about where to charge. I will probably rent a LR for this one
- Even though I had the slowest tesla, it was real quick. Is the BMW quicker? Yep, but the M3 is impressive in its own right. I will try a LR or P next.
- Regenerative braking is great. I rarely needed the brake
- The tech is cool. For example, changing air vents was memorable.
- Obviously not as luxurious as the BMW
- Missed the thigh support.
- Some items leave you shaking your head. For example, the seam on the plastic directional stalk. My Rubicon has better fit and finish than that
- No CarPlay. I listened to an Audible book on way and while I had skip forward and back, I did not have the skip back x seconds. I use that often - my mind wanders.
- Leatherette is blah and probably horrible in hot weather. Thinking swamp a$$.
Overall, I feel Tesla is like apple. You are buying into their ecosystem. While I don’t plan on many 200 plus mile trips, I also wouldn’t want to not have a fast DC charger on my route. If Tesla opens up their supercharger network to non Tesla, like they did in a couple countries, and it charges at the max wattage, BMW would be my choice. Otherwise, I would get a Tesla and keep it until the non Tesla fast charging network expands.
It was a fun weekend!
UncertainTimes
Active Member
I think the BMW is a great car. I think you can't compare the driving experience until you test drive the Performance version which is very different than the base model. The stereo is also much better in the higher trims. The seats are actually very comfortable on long trips even in hot weather but I do wish I had a cooled function. Also, the Tesla will probably charge much faster overall which is very nice on road trips. You can't go wrong with the BMW though.
You are correct in comparing to a non P. I was going to rent a LR or P for an upcoming 800 mile trip but none were close to me. Regardless of that, the standard is still a heck of a car.
I forgot to mention the stereo. Is was bad in the standard. Is it different in a LR or p? Is there a comprehensive comparison of what changes between models?
I forgot to mention the stereo. Is was bad in the standard. Is it different in a LR or p? Is there a comprehensive comparison of what changes between models?
