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Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA)

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The key is to be positioned before the stampede happens. If in 2018-2019, Model 3 is a success and the numbers become impossible to ignore, TSLA will become vastly more valuable than it is today, assuming that macro events don't cause a disruption. This is why I encourage long term investing rather than trading. I believe there is a reasonable probability that Tesla will succeed within a general time period. I just do not know precisely when it will happen.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The bears may not hide in their caves until hundreds of thousands of Model 3s have been delivered and maybe not completely even then. Tesla will still need to invest massively in growth (Model Y, Model T (truck), etc.) so they will continue to make the argument that "Tesla loses $x0,000 on each car" -- ignoring that Tesla is just investing its profits in R&D, infrastructure buildout, production capacity, etc. I personally use 2020 as a rough horizon for when we should see a big gap upward in share price ala 2013. Could be sooner (even this year), but like you I prefer to be a long-term investor so I don't have to worry about the timing.
 
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If Model S was kicking the hornet's nest, then Model 3 is overturning a Tractor Trailer full of honeybees.

I mostly agree with you: this increases the Tesla brand. But I believe the above ratio is an exaggeration. According to Wikipedia, the average weight of a hornet's nest is 0.176 pounds. A tractor trailer carries up to ~22.5 tons of cargo, so that's about 45,000÷0.176=255,682 times more. Tesla sells around 50K Model SX/yr right now, & will sell around 1M Model 3/yr doubly optimistically, only a 20x increase. So your exaggeration is somewhere around 12,784 times.

Many enthusiasts are super excited about Model 3, but others are frankly resentful and angry that electric cars are proving themselves to be viable and better alternatives to gasoline cars.

I think the natural human does not like the internal combustion engine, and only the weirdos that actually like the internal combustion engine have been able to be enthusiastic about the current ICE type of cars. I think the natural human has been dissuaded from being enthusiastic about cars because these disgusting dirty fuel cars have been the mainstay for generations. Therefore, the current batch of entrenched enthusiasts are wildly weird dirty fuel centric oddities that will be flushed out of the system due to the combination of, on the one side, slow attrition of death, and on the other side, normal people buying the new normal car, electric vehicles, then realizing how undisgusting they are after having gotten used to the normal electric car, then one day returning to the vicinity of a dirty energy car and getting IMMEDIATELY extremely highly disgusted. After a few experiences like that, individuals will realize that electric cars are relatively nice to be around, and natural car enthusiasts who would have naturally been sickened by dirty energy cars and gone to other hobbies will not be dissuaded at all by the electric vehicles in such a manner, and they will number far more than the odd people who love pollution.

So, I think you are exaggerating about how many people are "resentful and angry". They include entrenched enthusiasts and businesspeople, only, and number very few in comparison to the people who will have equal positions among the electric car markets. If you go looking for the comments of a dirty fuel car person, you will find them. Most automobile media is, as I described, self-selected pollution heads, because that's historical facts of market share, nothing more.

How much exaggeration? I'd guess 30x.

So, your two exaggerations are in opposite direction, so your net exaggeration is 436x in favor of Tesla. I'm excited about Tesla, but I'm being realistic.
 
Really? Formula E seems to be getting more and more support. ;)
Hmmm, the Long Beach Formula E doesn't seem to support this. It was significantly less crowded than last year, in particular there were almost no commercial displays except for Faraday Future, a few BMWs, and an NRG station that the person manning it knew almost nothing about.
 
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Earlier this weekend I posted on the Short-term thread a long post concerning the overall situation regarding the world's various Sovereign Investment Funds and the unparalleled clout these uber-giants have. Link here: Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

Now, although it certainly is the case that any such fund's investment in Tesla Motors understandably would have short-term investment consequences, these portfolios are the embodiment of the long-term investor. So it is here that I link the just-released article from Bloomberg, in which Liam Denning muses that the supposedly shortly-to-be-unleashed cash trove of Saudi Arabia - $2 trillion - could be destined to purchase a piece of TM.

Saudi Arabia's Tesla Roadmap

The author spins a long game, and I am sure some of his colleagues like Cory Johnson may be accusing him of click baiting, but it's worth reading and spending a small amount of time pondering.
 
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3962789-tesla-model-3-love-first-sight

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From Elon's Twitter Feed:

Q: "Why small trunk lid instead of big hatchback like S&X? I ride a bike not a surfboard
icon_smile.gif
"
A: " Only way to get enough rear passenger headroom was to move the rear roof cross-car support beam. A bike will still fit no problem."

Q: "What is Model 3's aerodynamic coefficient?"
A: "hopefully 0.21"

EM: "Model 3 will be RWD, with dual motor AWD optional. Even RWD will have great traction on ice due to fast torque response of Tesla drivetrain."
Q: "Reveal cars were AWD?"
A: "yes, but production AWD will be a lot faster"

Q: "~5k upgrade like on model s for dual motor? Or less since overall cost is lower?"
A: "Less"

EM: "Wait until you see the real steering controls and system for the 3. It feels like a spaceship."

Q: "Really hoping back seats can fold down on the 3."
A: "They can. Will be great for road trips and camping."

EM: "Edge and contour refinement are ongoing. Even 0.1mm matters."

EM: "Air suspension dynamically adjusts ride height."

EM: "Our production ramp plan should enable large numbers of non X/S customers to receive the credit.... We always try to maximize customer happiness even if that means a revenue shortfall in a quarter. Loyalty begets loyalty."

EM: "There will be an optional tow hitch."

EM: "Matte black was surprisingly popular. Probably makes sense to bring it to production."
 
I believe a mod has warned posters not to discuss too much of Model 3 information in this short term investment thread. Such information belongs to Model 3 sub-forum. Your information is a duplicate found here: Info and Hints from Elon Tweets

This isn't the short term investment thread.

It is discussing a model that will come out no sooner than 18 months from now.

Long term.
 
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Earlier this weekend I posted on the Short-term thread a long post concerning the overall situation regarding the world's various Sovereign Investment Funds and the unparalleled clout these uber-giants have. Link here: Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

Now, although it certainly is the case that any such fund's investment in Tesla Motors understandably would have short-term investment consequences, these portfolios are the embodiment of the long-term investor. So it is here that I link the just-released article from Bloomberg, in which Liam Denning muses that the supposedly shortly-to-be-unleashed cash trove of Saudi Arabia - $2 trillion - could be destined to purchase a piece of TM.

Saudi Arabia's Tesla Roadmap

The author spins a long game, and I am sure some of his colleagues like Cory Johnson may be accusing him of click baiting, but it's worth reading and spending a small amount of time pondering.

The sovereign funds as potential significant TSLA investors would be very troubling to me and this issue raises a concern I have for the future of Tesla. With the huge number of reservations that Tesla now has for the Model 3, the threat to traditional automobile manufacturers and oil and gas interests is obvious. The sovereign funds in particular would have massive conflicts of interest as investors. Tesla would likely be worth more to them dead, or at least crippled, than alive. I would be very uncomfortable if the sovereign funds took a significant stake in TSLA, e.g. to the point they got board representation or otherwise could influence the direction of the company.

I have not looked into it, but is there anything stopping a third party from taking over Tesla in a hostile takeover? I can think of any number of entities who could do that in the guise of wanting to invest in the future of transportation, but end up stalling the transition to sustainable transport. I don't think Elon has enough shares to stop it, but perhaps I am missing something?
 
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The sovereign funds as potential significant TSLA investors would be very troubling to me and this issue raises a concern I have for the future of Tesla. With the huge number of reservations that Tesla now has for the Model 3, the threat to traditional automobile manufacturers and oil and gas interests is obvious. The sovereign funds in particular would have massive conflicts of interest as investors. Tesla would likely be worth more to them dead, or at least crippled, than alive. I would be very uncomfortable if the sovereign funds took a significant stake in TSLA, e.g. to the point they got board representation or otherwise could influence the direction of the company.

I have not looked into it, but is there anything stopping a third party from taking over Tesla in a hostile takeover? I can think of any number of entities who could do that in the guise of wanting to invest in the future of transportation, but end up stalling the transition to sustainable transport. I don't think Elon has enough shares to stop it, but perhaps I am missing something?

Many SWF have already made significant investments in renewable technologies like solar and wind. Others have little to no oil in the underlying economy.
 
...The sovereign funds in particular would have massive conflicts of interest as investors. Tesla would likely be worth more to them dead, or at least crippled, than alive...I have not looked into it, but is there anything stopping a third party from taking over Tesla in a hostile takeover?...perhaps I am missing something?

1. That a KIO or SIF or any of the other sovereign funds could successfully mount a hostile takeover is possible only in theory.
2. That they or any other hyper-deep-pocketed organizations would want to is even less likely.
3. Were it to occur I would rejoice, not mourn.

Here is why:

With few exceptions, the operations and structure of the funds are such that they are run quite independently of the forces that generate their base moneys. This is the weakest of arguments, as the conspiratorially-minded always can look to nefarious deeds by the Emir of Durka-durkastan as changing her mind, and so on.

More appropriately, as Crown Prince Mohammed has revealed, the O&G-based funds are actively and have a deep history of looking for opportunities to diversify away from their traditional revenue sources. These peoples are playing a very, very long game. The non O&G funds include the ForEx-rich centers like China, HK and Singapore. The latter two are far too-well experienced in the world of business to have any interest in such shenanigans; that leaves only China. I'll state unequivocally right here that the possibility that China would be permitted to a hostile takeover of a successful Tesla Motors is exactly zero, regardless of what political parties are in control of what portions of D.C.

Tesla's equity ownership is a lot less liquid than would be required for a hostile takeover. We can posit, first, that Mr Musk's 37% (is that the correct amount? I know it's close). Other insiders bring that to about 40%. Devoted "super-long" individual investors hold, at a guess, 5%. FMR controls about 10% and other US-based fund management companies another 20-25%.

Now, of these those fund management companies can and rightly should be considered swayable. Their fiduciary responsibility is to their fund shareholders, never to corporate management. Leaving them out, however, it remains all but impossible to amass a 50% stake. More fundamentally, however, is that there are no plausible scenarios under which a sovereign fund's representatives could be shown to claim a seat on a TM board. Such actions occur only during conditions of corporate weakness; never during strengths. And Tesla is definitely not the former, irrespective of any bear claims of cash flow crunches.

Most wonderfully delicious of all, however, is that Tesla long since has guaranteed, through a gaspingly audacious move, that a hostile takeover could not occur. Which is.....bear with me now and we'll take a walk down Improbability Lane:

1. Hostile Fund X mounts a takeover attempt. How much for the shares? $500 won't do it - that's a mere doubling of current prices. $1,000? Bare minimum but let's go with that.

2. Oops. There's a 30-million-odd short overhang. Mother Of Squeezes occurs; all of a sudden we're talking meltdown numbers here: let's bring the price to $5,000 per share and that's likely to be conservative.

3. Not only does my portfolio leap into the HolyMoly category, as do those of most on this forum, but Mr Musk is the cashed-out!!!! wealthiest person on the planet.

AND....

4. With it he and the rest of the critical management team walk away and make use not only of that capital but.......THE FREE USE OF ALL TESLA'S PATENTS to create a little company they're going to call, let's say, Tezla Motors.


QED

Have I placated your concerns?
 
Here is a view from a Rockefeller

Tesla Motor's Elon Musk is energy innovator in spirit of John D Rockefeller

Anyone who doesn't know John D. Rockefeller, the richest private person in entire known history, and Musk's parallels to him, should do some homework.

Here is a good start from trusty wikipedia - John D. Rockefeller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I long argued among my friends that Musk will out-beat Rockefeller. I am more confident now than ever before.

The opportunity here with Tesla happens once in a hundred years or so. Fundamental tectonic shifts to energy production/consumption.

The thing which many people may not grasp is - Tesla's Model 3 will capture oil revenues without ever selling oil (or even electricity).

When an average Camry buyer buys a Tesla Model 3 and tells himself, well I am paying a tad bit more here but I will break even once I discount the gasoline costs over the car's lifetime. What the buyer is effectively doing is, transferring all the future oil revenues into a one-time payment and giving it to Tesla upfront... Let that sink in for a minute.

When you look at the revenues per annum of global oil companies (public alone), that is more than that of auto companies $4.67T vs 3.12T. Tesla is capturing the oil company revenues (in addition to auto company revenues). This is something almost no one talks about.


PS: If you are running into a paywall, google search the headline and click into. That usually works. Here are a few interesting snippets anyway:

The man responsible for investing part of the Rockefeller family's remaining oil wealth sees electric-car pioneer Elon Musk as a spiritual successor to oil baron John D Rockefeller.

Stephen Heintz, president of the $US860 million ($1.1 billion) Rockefeller Brothers Fund, said Mr Musk's success in capturing the imagination of car buyers with electric vehicles could be compared with the Standard Oil founder's vision in moving the world from whale oil to petroleum in the 19th century.

"As a young man in his 20s [Mr Rockefeller] saw the power of petroleum as a successor to whale oil, essentially at that point the world was using whale oil to provide light, and he all of a sudden saw what this new form of energy could do and he moved dramatically and rapidly and at the end voraciously into it," Mr Heintz said.

"And I am absolutely persuaded that if he were alive today he would be out there seeing that clean energy is the future and he'd be on the leading edge and building the new [energy future] in the way that Musk is."

Mr Heintz said Tesla cars could be "one of the cornerstones" of the transition from a world dependent on fossil fuel to a clean energy economy "because it's both meeting a demand and building more demand".

"The more people buy electric vehicles the more demand there's going to be for the storage systems, the servicing, the charging stations and all of that infrastructure, and so as innovation and entrepreneurship always does, the cycle begins to build something more substantial."
 
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