Launch is Imminent

[jebinc]

I find this surprising. I would have bet that Telsa vehicle efficiency would always be the best. That has been a standard fact for some time. Has the mold been broken with the Cybertruck to to high CD and weak 4680s?

EPA data shows Rivians are more efficient than Cybertrucks, even with larger wheels and batteries

Following several new documents containing details of the Tesla Cybertruck posted to the EPA’s website, we have been able to...

electrek.co

"Following several new documents containing details of the Tesla Cybertruck posted to the EPA’s website, we have been able to better understand the efficiencies the truck will achieve. While Cybertruck should perform better than nearly all its current competitors in the electric pickup segment, the slightly smaller Rivian R1T appears to have it beaten – even with larger wheels and battery packs."

 

[texas_star_TM3]

... the otherwise unknown fact you can scratch metal?

lol... seriously... while stainless steel is 8 on Mohs scale ...you can definitely scratch/ deeply scratch it if you hit something. ask any owner of a steel Rolex...

 

[jebinc]

As suggested last week, this clown always is promising something great right around the corner (see attached), to; 1) distract folks from the most recent disappointment, 2) to prop up a sagging stock price, and, 3) to keep the fanbase knelt before him. . What a Charlatan!

 

[zoomer0056]

Given all of the stuff Elon says, who knows if he will accept the fact you state....

I think your record has a scratch in it. Time to bump the turntable to move forward to the next track.

 

[jebinc]

I think your record has a scratch in it. Time to bump the turntable to move forward to the next track.

Can't attack the facts/points made, so you turn to attacking members and their views/opinions - nice...

BTW, in case your Charlatan provided "rose-colored glasses" filtered it out, there is a scratched and skipping record on the other side of the issue (Cybertruck/Elon the DemiGod, etc.) as well....

Balance is a good thing; embrace it....

 

[Knightshade]

Can't attack the facts/points made

Your last one was "Maybe Elon deleted someone elses post on X because they want to keep the fact you can scratch metal a secret"

I'm not sure your facts....are.

 

[jebinc]

Your last one was "Maybe Elon deleted someone elses post on X because they want to keep the fact you can scratch metal a secret"

I'm not sure your facts....are.

No, that was a question - not me stating a FACT. There is a difference. My post showing the FACT that Elon was quoted THIS MORNING making claims about the $25k Telsa was a fact. The article is REAL. It was that post (with humor) that drew the other member out with his/her/it BS "skipping record" comment - BECAUSE they could not argue with that FACT.

Edit: Sure, I did add color and opinions to that post as well. Guilty as charged, there.

 

[Mengy]

No, that was a question - not me stating a FACT

Makes you seem like a charlatan and/or a shill for Tesla haters!

 

[Knightshade]

No, that was a question - not me stating a FACT. There is a difference. My post showing the FACT that Elon was quoted THIS MORNING making claims about the $25k Telsa was a fact. The article is REAL.

Sure.

Are you claiming his stating they're working on it is not actually true then?

Because if not, I'm unclear what your actual claim is?

 

[jebinc]

Sure.

Are you claiming his stating they're working on it is not actually true then?

Because if not, I'm unclear what your actual claim is?

My claim is simple - History has shown us all that Elon either exaggerates, outright lies, is uniformed (but spouts off anyway for some ulterior motive), or has an unhealthy relationship with the truth. This is just the latest example (i.e., the $25k car is far along). Take his often spouted BS timelines, four years of Cybertruck feature claims, FSD and RoboTaxis'..... The list of factual examples is VERY long.

 

[Knightshade]

My claim is simple - History has shown us all that Elon either exaggerates, outright lies, is uniformed (but spouts any way for some ulterior motive), or has an unhealthy relationship with the truth. This is just the latest example.

And your evidence for what he said in this example being anything other than the truth is.... what again?

Because I mean there's a long list of stuff he's said was coming that did too... so I'm not sure how you can paint all claims as false based on some being true and some being false?

I mean I've certainly called out him repeating already-missed dates on things (FSD for example)- but you seem to be going with "it's all lies all the way down no matter what he's saying"

Or is this another opinion you're pretending isn't?

 

[jebinc]

And your evidence for what he said in this example being anything other than the truth is.... what again?

Because I mean there's a long list of stuff he's said was coming that did too... so I'm not sure how you can paint all claims as false based on some being true and some being false?


Or is this another opinion you're pretending isn't?

Well, there you go again - trying hard to live your avatar picture....

You asked me to define my "claim". I DID. My "claim" is based on the historical track record/facts. In this "$25k car" case, we won't know until (if and when) a $25k car is "Available" ($39k Cybertruck in '21, anyone?). The odds (given historical FACTS) support my "claim" that what was quoted in the article is further from reality than Elon "Claims" it is

I'm now "done" with the "back and forth" here, as I feel I have adequately answered your all of your questions.

Take care and enjoy a balanced set of forum member viewpoints. Moving on......

 

[Knightshade]

Well, there you go again - trying hard to live your avatar picture....

You asked me to define my "claim". I DID. My "claim" is based on the historical track record/facts.

Quoting you- your claim was:

"My claim is simple - History has shown us all that Elon either exaggerates, outright lies, is uniformed (but spouts any way for some ulterior motive), or has an unhealthy relationship with the truth. This is just the latest example."


So as I just asked last time- what evidence do you have THIS claim is untrue?

"Sometimes Elon says true things and is on time, sometimes he says true things that show up late, sometimes he says things we don't know yet if they're true or not, and sometimes he says untrue things" is...not useful information in that context.

That's...just about everyone- but not everyone has daily newspaper stories about all their claims to keep score.

In this "$25k car" case, we won't know

Then why did you act like you did?

until (if and when) a $25k car is "Available" ($39k Cybertruck in '21, anyone?). The odds (given historical FACTS) support my "claim"

I'd very much like to see the math on that.

I'm now "done" with the "back and forth" here, as I feel I have adequately answered your all of your questions.

This again seems like you presenting opinion as fact

Take care and enjoy a balanced set of forum member viewpoints. Moving on......

The lack of balance in your viewpoint seemed to be the main issue here

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I find this surprising. I would have bet that Telsa vehicle efficiency would always be the best. That has been a standard fact for some time. Has the mold been broken with the Cybertruck to to high CD

Yeah I thought it would slightly edge out the Rivian at least on city streets after seeing the range and approximate capacity. But did not expect a scalar exceeding 0.8!

It’s definitely time for EPA to make a change - no more of this silly business and just do a constant 70mph range test. (In addition to existing tests.)

Ignoring highway result and extrapolating as Reddit thread did:

“Uniform 0.7 Range”

123kWh CT unknown tires UDDS 430 miles

430mi*(0.55+0.92*0.45)*0.7 = 0.675*430mi =290mi

290mi != 500mi

131kWh Rivian Dual Large 20” AT UDDS 459mi
459 *0.675 = 310mi

Identical efficiency.

131kWh Rivian Dual Large 21” street UDDS 520mi
=> 351mi :

City-only efficiencies from above:
CT unknown tires: 410Wh/mi
R1TDL 20” AT: 409Wh/mi
R1TDL 21” street: 360Wh/mi

Things won’t look better for CT relative to Rivian on the highway for sure.

 

[jebinc]

Yeah I thought it would slightly edge out the Rivian at least on city streets after seeing the range and approximate capacity. But did not expect a scalar exceeding 0.8!

City-only efficiencies from above:
CT unknown tires: 410Wh/mi
R1TDL 20” AT: 409Wh/mi
R1TDL 21” street: 360Wh/mi

Things won’t look better for CT relative to Rivian on the highway for sure.

Right. What’s even more odd is that I see EPA or better on R1T. Never see EPA range on my three Teslas. There must be more data that we are missing.

 

[jebinc]

Quoting you- your claim was:

"My claim is simple - History has shown us all that Elon either exaggerates, outright lies, is uniformed (but spouts any way for some ulterior motive), or has an unhealthy relationship with the truth. This is just the latest example."


So as I just asked last time- what evidence do you have THIS claim is untrue?

"Sometimes Elon says true things and is on time, sometimes he says true things that show up late, sometimes he says things we don't know yet if they're true or not, and sometimes he says untrue things" is...not useful information in that context.

That's...just about everyone- but not everyone has daily newspaper stories about all their claims to keep score.





Then why did you act like you did?




I'd very much like to see the math on that.



This again seems like you presenting opinion as fact




The lack of balance in your viewpoint seemed to be the main issue here

My last reply to you is self-explanatory. Take care.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Right. What’s even more odd is that I see EPA or better on R1T. Never see EPA range on my three Teslas. There must be more data that we are missing.

It’s more useful to talk about efficiency, though range is obviously important and an offshoot of that. Efficiency is where to look though, as metered in the car (and yes, it is accurate enough in Teslas for this purpose, they don’t make up numbers or scale them to look better).

This is standard stuff:
1) To establish range matching EPA tests you need to drive until your brand-new car stops moving and is disabled in the middle of the road.
2) Tesla has nominally 4.5% below 0%. You have to use it to get the range (not recommended). No idea how Rivian manages this.
3) Tesla uses a scalar different than 0.7 (so does Rivian) which boosts range relative to Rivian by as much as 10%, with no actual change to best-case range and efficiency.
4) Rivian may do things (unlock more capacity) to prevent capacity loss as batteries age, I don’t know. This would make it do better on range but only over time. Does not impact efficiency (so easiest to just look there).

Due to point 3 Tesla does not make efficiency as expected, relative to Rivian. It’s best just to look at raw results and scale by 0.7.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm now "done" with the "back and forth" here

My last reply to you is self-explanatory. Take care.

Guess we can move this one from "fact" to "opinion" too

 

[blodg1]

Well, there you go again - trying hard to live your avatar picture....

You asked me to define my "claim". I DID. My "claim" is based on the historical track record/facts. In this "$25k car" case, we won't know until (if and when) a $25k car is "Available" ($39k Cybertruck in '21, anyone?). The odds (given historical FACTS) support my "claim" that what was quoted in the article is further from reality than Elon "Claims" it is

I'm now "done" with the "back and forth" here, as I feel I have adequately answered your all of your questions.

Take care and enjoy a balanced set of forum member viewpoints. Moving on......

The $25,000 car was mentioned in 2018, so with inflation and the Fed tax help, it is already here in the M3SR. Considering we are in a world where Nissan can sell a loaded Altima for $36k, it makes little sense to deliver a cheaper car. The $39k CT at the 2019 announcement is about $46k in today's dollars and by the time it hits the road...

 

[Knightshade]

The $25,000 car was mentioned in 2018, so with inflation and the Fed tax help, it is already here in the M3SR. Considering we are in a world where Nissan can sell a loaded Altima for $36k, it makes little sense to deliver a cheaper car. The $39k CT at the 2019 announcement is about $46k in today's dollars and by the time it hits the road...

True... inventory 3s are already around 35k, with the $7500 fed credit you're at $27.5k before any state help one might have available.