Lack of 360 degree camera (birds eye view)

[Saghost]

the skew and blend required is brain-dead trivial and obvious.

Most inventions are - after the inventor conceives the idea, makes it work, and demonstrates it to you.

 

[zenmaster]

Most inventions are - after the inventor conceives the idea, makes it work, and demonstrates it to you.

It wasn't Nissan's invention. They just used it for this application.

 

[electracity]

Certain ideas and concepts end up being patented. Those who hold the patents often pay licensing fees to use them. As an 'outsider' to the traditional automobile industry, Tesla Motors may not have ready access to all technologies that might be desirable. That is why they make so much of their cars themselves.

I believe that the Model S doesn't have adjustable height seat belts because those who held the patents wanted more than Tesla Motors could afford to pay by the time they had to do crash test certification. Both the Model X and Model ☰ have adjustable height seat belts. Changing the seat belts may have required a new battery of crash tests, so even after the recent refresh of external fascia and color scheme, the Model S still doesn't have adjustable height belts. The Model S uses the same open sourced design for three point seat belts that has been in place since around 1957.

Traditional automobile manufacturers might be willing to work with each other from time-to-time. Help each other out with one thing or another. Or even license technology to each other for a fee. But such considerations are unlikely to be available to Tesla Motors for the duration. Even though Toyota and Mercedes-Benz may have reaped rich rewards from their deals with Tesla in times past, each has cut ties with the smaller company. The tentative support they offered before is probably seen by most as having been too much at this point. They have inadvertently helped to birth what may be a monster in their future, even as they abandoned it to die in the nest. So, whomever owns the 'Bird's Eye' technology likely knows full well it would work well for Tesla Motors products, but won't let them have it. Either to maintain their relationships with other manufacturers, or just for the sake of watching Tesla squirm without them. But patents don't last forever, and can often be improved upon in time.

Traditional automakers typically trade patents and try not to fight over small IP.

 

[Saghost]

It wasn't Nissan's invention. They just used it for this application.

??? I never mentioned Nissan...

 

[zenmaster]

??? I never mentioned Nissan...

Nissan and Infiniti were the first to implement the feature.

 

[Vitold]

There are plenty of patents that go into 360 bird eye view.

From Google Sued for Patent Infringement Over Street View — Justia Law Blog

• 6,157,385: “Method of and apparatus for performing perspective transformation of visible stimuli”
• 6,323,862: “Apparatus for generating and interactively viewing spherical image data and memory thereof”
• 6,243,099: “Method for interactive viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 6,731,284: “Method of and apparatus for performing perspective transformation of visible stimuli”
• 8,077,176: “Method for interactively viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 7,542,035: “Method for interactively viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 6,252,603: “Processes for generating spherical image data sets and products made thereby”
• 6,271,853: “Method for generating and interactively viewing spherical image data”

 

[zenmaster]

There are plenty of patents that go into 360 bird eye view.

From Google Sued for Patent Infringement Over Street View — Justia Law Blog

• 6,157,385: “Method of and apparatus for performing perspective transformation of visible stimuli”
• 6,323,862: “Apparatus for generating and interactively viewing spherical image data and memory thereof”
• 6,243,099: “Method for interactive viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 6,731,284: “Method of and apparatus for performing perspective transformation of visible stimuli”
• 8,077,176: “Method for interactively viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 7,542,035: “Method for interactively viewing full-surround image data and apparatus therefor”
• 6,252,603: “Processes for generating spherical image data sets and products made thereby”
• 6,271,853: “Method for generating and interactively viewing spherical image data”

Which one of these patents are related to a "bird's eye view" system?

 

[JeffK]

Meh there have been algorithms for manipulating images as such in open source for a long while now...

 

[voip-ninja]

Meh there have been algorithms for manipulating images as such in open source for a long while now...

That doesn't mean that this isn't patented.

You could also argue that there was nothing patentable about intermittent windshield wipers, but it was patented, it was an innovation at the time (even though adjustable speed electric items already existed), and ultimately it cost the auto-makers millions when they stole the idea without paying the patent holder.

There is a big difference between patent trolls who aggregate bologna patents for the purpose of suing and patenting actual useful things (like birds eye view of car for parking) and wanting to get royalties for it.

I actually found a thread in S land where owners complain about not having this feature as Tesla's implementation of front/rear/sensors parking is not nearly as useful as what BMW, Infiniti/Nissan and others offer.

 

[Saghost]

I actually found a thread in S land where owners complain about not having this feature as Tesla's implementation of front/rear/sensors parking is not nearly as useful as what BMW, Infiniti/Nissan and others offer.

Huh. I wonder what those cars had? I've only test driven so far, but I was very impressed with Tesla's implementation of parking sensors on AP cars - giving both the approximate location of the obstruction and an exact distance in inches (or presumably cm) to the object.

My past experience, including my current Volt, just beeps at you, with faster beeps when you get closer, and different pitches for front vs rear - the Tesla offers much more information.

 

[Red Sage]

There's also the point of 'hubris' on the part of Tesla Motors, which others might identify as being 'arrogance' instead... Whereby they just honestly don't think it is a worthwhile feature as presented by other manufacturers. So, they may simply decide to not offer a Bird's Eye View option at all -- until they have something they believe is better than everyone else's. I suspect that is also why none of their cars have featured a HUD thus far. It's not arrogance if you can do it.

 

[TEG]

What are car surround view cameras, and why are they better than they need to be? | ExtremeTech

 

[1208]

Just put it on the car Elon!

 

[thegruf]

there's a ton of features that Tesla could add to the cars, 360 view is just one of many.

Problem is that Tesla have to keep cost and complexity (especially variant builds) under control and use their finite engineering resource focussed on new developments like MX, M3 and AP2.0

Look at it differently, the lack of 360 view didnt stop you buying your Tesla. so Tesla made the right call on priorities then.

Priorities will change over time though and steadily the car will become more feature rich.
My personal one would be to take a major step forward on the media/phone interface and integration as the 17 inch screen could offer so much more that other auto manufacturers just couldn't get near.

 

[JeffK]

Problem is that Tesla have to keep cost and complexity (especially variant builds) under control and use their finite engineering resource focussed on new developments like MX, M3 and AP2.0

Everything is already there. It would take very little for a software developer to pool that data for such a view. The added cost is up front and not per car.

Also personally I feel that if 3rd party apps are allowed on those screens I'd want them to be tightly controlled. The last thing I want is adware or malware on my car.

 

[thegruf]

Everything is already there...

... except for the cameras, the cables and connectors, the bodywork apertures/mountings, the video inputs/mux, the environmental testing, the setting up of the supply chain, the obsolesence management, the build configuration in the factory, the market research into how much take up the will be for the option vs the price.

I think you oversimplify the work to add this.

Not saying it can't/won't/shouldn't be done, but this is only one of many priorities that Tesla will have, and I can easily see others that will have a higher priority

 

[zenmaster]

There's also the point of 'hubris' on the part of Tesla Motors, which others might identify as being 'arrogance' instead... Whereby they just honestly don't think it is a worthwhile feature as presented by other manufacturers. So, they may simply decide to not offer a Bird's Eye View option at all -- until they have something they believe is better than everyone else's. I suspect that is also why none of their cars have featured a HUD thus far. It's not arrogance if you can do it.

They also need to make tradeoffs in variety of possible options included due to need to simplify manufacturing. That is, even if option component cost is very low such as with a downward surround cam view. Actually, in order to maximize profit, priority for option choices should be placed on what things they can install with highest margins.

 

[JeffK]

... except for the cameras, the cables and connectors, the bodywork apertures/mountings, the video inputs/mux, the environmental testing, the setting up of the supply chain, the obsolesence management, the build configuration in the factory, the market research into how much take up the will be for the option vs the price.

I think you oversimplify the work to add this.

Not saying it can't/won't/shouldn't be done, but this is only one of many priorities that Tesla will have, and I can easily see others that will have a higher priority

All the future Mobileye systems will have 8 cameras around the vehicle, these will already be integrated to be analyzed by the EyeQ3 chips. So, everything you mentioned is already there (and will be standard).

 

[zenmaster]

All the future Mobileye systems will have 8 cameras around the vehicle, these will already be integrated to be analyzed by the EyeQ3 chips. So, everything you mentioned is already there (and will be standard).

unlikely to be repurposeable, simply due to differing requirement of driver views for this option vs views required for mobile eye traffic processing. Half of those 8 cameras would need to be pointed directly down.

 

[thegruf]

All the future Mobileye systems will have 8 cameras around the vehicle, these will already be integrated to be analyzed by the EyeQ3 chips. So, everything you mentioned is already there (and will be standard).

nearly there

All the future Mobileye systems will may have up to 8 cameras around the vehicle, these will already be integrated to be analyzed by the EyeQ3 chips. So, everything you mentioned is not already there (and will be not be standard) but is likely to be on the development plan, though as they are intended to provide AP functionality there is no certainty that these cameras can be utilised to generate a 360 view in the manner discussed in this thread.

in the meantime a 360 view remains desirable option but is in no way a deal breaker.