Karma -vs- Model S

[doug]

A correction on that article. The Model S was not code-named Whitestar. Tesla followers called it that because we knew the Roadster codename was Darkstar.

And the Genlll was called Bluestar by us as well.

No, my recollection is the Tesla sedan was originally codenamed Whitestar, and that came from Tesla Motors. The concept went through a couple iterations (range extended version!) and the code name changed a couple times. The last codename was Model S (S for sedan) which they ended up deciding to keep.

It's the Bluestar name that appears to have been fan generated for the platform Tesla is now calling GenIII.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I would say that not many Tesla-fans have been bashing Fisker for the last year or so. It stopped being funny when Fisker started struggling.

Before a year ago I think Fisker was considered more of a competitor, resulting in some friction.

It was more than that. There was tons of bad blood due to the whole hiring of Henrik to design Model S, which he didn't because he left to form his own car company to compete with Model S, which is terrible, terrible form no matter how you slice it. The irony is that the Fisker was called Karma and a lot of the offended Tesla lovers were waiting for just that. After Fiskers' karma came back to bite hard, there was really nothing left to bash them over. As they say karma's a b*tch.

 

[dsm363]

The Karma was never really a competitor other than it was a very expensive car like the Model S and had a plug. A few of their owners are very bitter for obvious reason and will lash out at any criticism of Fisker's design decision. Others realize he made several bad decisions along they way and ruined any chance that a good looking car would be around for very long.

 

[rolosrevenge]

The Karma was never really a competitor other than it was a very expensive car like the Model S and had a plug. A few of their owners are very bitter for obvious reason and will lash out at any criticism of Fisker's design decision. Others realize he made several bad decisions along they way and ruined any chance that a good looking car would be around for very long.

When Fisker first announced the Karma, its price and specs were very similar to Model S's at that point plus he would always play up range anxiety to show why it was better than a pure EV. If that isn't competing I don't know what is.

 

[dsm363]

Tough crowd over at Motortrend. I was told I should stop calling Fisker owners 'idiots' (never said that) and that they were stupid for buying the car (never said that and don't believe that). I guess anyone says something negative about the car and they jump on them. I'd be pretty pissed if Tesla went out of business and I couldn't get service done too so I understand but fail to see why they took any critism of the car and design as personal attacks.

Yes, I got Fisker's first name wrong in a post. That means I can't read will and don't understand engineering at all. That Jim guy in the comments is a special person. Says he worked at Tesla for a bit then Fisker. Has both cars too. Good for him.

When Fisker first announced the Karma, its price and specs were very similar to Model S's at that point plus he would always play up range anxiety to show why it was better than a pure EV. If that isn't competing I don't know what is.

I think they tried to pick a fight with Tesla to get in the news. The battery tunnel tiring it into a 4 person car and the tiny trunk make it almost more of a Roadster competitor than the Model S.
that's how I see it at least.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I think they tried to pick a fight with Tesla to get in the news. The battery tunnel tiring it into a 4 person car and the tiny trunk make it almost more of a Roadster competitor than the Model S.
that's how I see it at least.

True, that's how it is now, but not as originally announced. So it's kind of understandable for a lot of Tesla fans to feel betrayed by Mr. Fisker and his car, and feel that the failure is kind of what he deserves.

 

[dsm363]

Guess my new friend Jim doesn't like me anymore. I am a bot or someone with a poor public education apparently.
Fisker vs. Tesla: A Lesson in Not Taking Shortcuts - Motor Trend


Think it is this guy:
Luxury hybrid maker Fisker faces uncertain future | car, com - Business - The Orange County Register
Jim Ackley · Top Commenter · University of South Florida
Taxpayers do not fund Fisker anymore...They fund Tesla

Gotta love it. I type Henry instead of Henrik and that means I don't have an education and any criticism of Fisker in invalid.

 

[Yggdrasill]

No offence, but I think your comments in the article come off as rushed and passive-aggressive. And stalking Jim doesn't help.

I would tone down the comments somewhat.

 

[dsm363]

No offence, but I think your comments in the article come off as rushed and passive-aggressive. And stalking Jim doesn't help.

I would tone down the comments somewhat.

No offense taken. I started with my critiques about the car and the company. They took that personally said I didn't know anything I was talking about, was stupid and must have had a public education whatever that means. I'm done with them. They attack anyone who points out Fisker is likely done and that is Fisker bashing and I must hate all the owners. That is absurd.

 

[Yggdrasill]

No offense taken. I started with my critiques about the car and the company. They took that personally said I didn't know anything I was talking about, was stupid and must have had a public education whatever that means. I'm done with them. They attack anyone who points out Fisker is likely done and that is Fisker bashing and I must hate all the owners. That is absurd.

I took a crack at Mr Opaque in the comments. I believe his conviction of Fiskers superiority actually can be classified as a delusion.

The issue is not what Fisker customers are happy with, the issue is what all the people who didn't chose Fisker are unhappy with. Of course all the people who bought a Karma are happy with it (or thought they would be). That's like saying that almost everyone who owns golf clubs like to golf. It's obviously true, but it doesn't mean everyone likes to golf.

The Fisker customer who spent money and has experienced a Fisker Karma is most important as they are true brand ambassadors and can truly comment on the car. They have truly experienced the potential of this car and know where the company can reach. If the company had not faced the issues I highlighted above, the company would have achieved what it set out to achieve originally. The problem is people are not able to understand and accept this reality and need to find a problem with the car or with the manufacturing profit or invent another reason.

We are apparently not able to understand and accept reality.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

You have to take into account that a lot of Fisker-owners are in tight spot (luckily I sold mine already half a year ago). They are walking on eggs. Every day could be the last day of their car. If they have a critical failure or an accident it could mean the end of their $100,000 car, or - in the best case - a very expensive repair.

On the Fiskerbuzz-forum you can find their stories. One suffered the failure of a cell in his battery = no warranty, looking at a cost of $10,000 to $15,000 for a repair or even more for a replacement of the full battery. One guy actually bought his Karma two weeks ago, probably with a big discount, but then an old lady backed into his door, and since there are no more spare doors the car is in fact totaled. Other cars were allegedly totaled for accidents involving just the bumper. Link: Karma with Door damage - Fisker Buzz Forums

 

[SoCalGuy]

You have to take into account that a lot of Fisker-owners are in tight spot (luckily I sold mine already half a year ago). They are walking on eggs. Every day could be the last day of their car. If they have a critical failure or an accident it could mean the end of their $100,000 car, or - in the best case - a very expensive repair.

On the Fiskerbuzz-forum you can find their stories. One suffered the failure of a cell in his battery = no warranty, looking at a cost of $10,000 to $15,000 for a repair or even more for a replacement of the full battery. One guy actually bought his Karma two weeks ago, probably with a big discount, but then an old lady backed into his door, and since there are no more spare doors the car is in fact totaled. Other cars were allegedly totaled for accidents involving just the bumper. Link: Karma with Door damage - Fisker Buzz Forums

Just a correction - the old lady backing into door wasn't for a new Fisker - it was an owner who had just taken his 1-year old Karma out of winter storage...

 

[Mr X]

The Model S no doubt looks better than the Karma. Karma is a nice looking car but isn't as clean looking as the Tesla and thats what makes it very hard to beat.


From a design point the Tesla literally has no design flaws, i'd have to say that its design perfection which is why it looks so simple and normal, yet so striking and has become my favorite car. Super duper sleek, the sleekest car i've seen. Its simplistic shapes, headlights, taillights, door handles, etc. then the lines in the sheet metal, the flare on the doors, the bulge in the thigh, and everything has a little edge (sharp points).


The window trim is super clean and eye catching which is why i love the color red since it shows it off greatly while the red is gleaming. Everything matches and goes together. And then of course the long roofline which slopes all the way to the back thanks to it being a hatchback along with the Pano roof with just gives it a futuristic look, should be standard on all white teslas. And a white Tesla looks like a spaceship. Interior is simple and clean as well, im not a fan of cars with tons of buttons. It just has no excess anything, Franz did an incredible job. :wink: