It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[dpeilow]

Russia to get lithium battery production courtesy of Thunder Sky - Autoblog Green

Daimler and Evonik invest €200M more for ten-fold li-ion cell production boost by 2013 - Autoblog Green

 

[Norbert]

lithium-ion iron-sulfide : 0.5x price, 1.6x energy density, 1.5x power density.

Technology Review

 

[dpeilow]

Green Car Congress: Imara Corporation Launches; New Li-ion Battery Technology for High-Power Applications

Imara

Bad news:

Panasonic, which scored a deal to supply batteries to Tesla Motors in October, has already successfully pushed automotive battery makers out of the market, like Imara, which shuttered earlier this month. Valence, being kept afloat by a new contract with Smith Electric Vehicles, could be next if it doesn’t move fast.

 

[dpeilow]

Study: Battery electric vehicles unlikely to be cost competitive - Autoblog Green

At an Automotive Press Association meeting this week, the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) released the results of a new cost study on battery electric vehicles and it doesn't look good for electric vehicle fans. BCG thinks it is unlikely that the cost of batteries will drop nearly enough to make EVs price competitive with internal combustion vehicles in the next decade without continued tax incentives. The current $7,500 federal tax break for plug-in buyers is unlikely to still be in place by 2020 and BCG doesn't see any battery breakthroughs on the horizon.

 

[vfx]

Not so nice
Study Raises Cost Estimate for Electric Cars - NYTimes.com

Wired is a bit more balanced.
Study: Batteries — and EVs — Won’t Get Cheaper Anytime Soon | Autopia | Wired.com

 

[JRP3]

Any study that uses outdated cell prices is worthless. As an individual I can buy automotive cells for less than $400 per kwh today.

 

[dpeilow]

Testing reveals problem in move to electric cars

 

[JRP3]

Insulated battery boxes and preheating when plugged in should take care of much of the problem. Notice Tesla said "slight range reduction".

 

[Iz]

Wired is a bit more balanced.

The Paul Scott comment hits the nail on the head. It is not always about costs.

Paul Scott, a co-founder of the advocacy group Plug In America, agrees. He says reports like those prepared by Boston Consulting Group often overlook the fact oil isn’t getting any cheaper, people are increasingly concerned about the environment and they’re tired of buying oil from countries hostile to the United States.
“These are issues that the bottom-line argument doesn’t take into account,” Scott said. “There are millions of people for whom those issues are important, and they will pay more for an electric car.”

 

[vfx]

The Paul Scott comment hits the nail on the head. It is not always about costs.

...and they will pay more for an electric car...just like they will pay more for an auto's styling, it's ability to go off-road -even if they never will, and they will pay more for a car that can do double and triple the fastest they will ever drive it. For many cars are reflections of the owners and how they see themselves.

 

[mt2]

...and they will pay more for an electric car...just like they will pay more for an auto's styling, it's ability to go off-road -even if they never will, and they will pay more for a car that can do double and triple the fastest they will ever drive it. For many cars are reflections of the owners and how they see themselves.

VFX, I think you hit the nail on the head. "... cars are reflections of the owners ..." The issues Paul Scott mentions as well as yours are things that make up a person's persona. Even how much we are willing to spend is a part of who we are. We buy based on want, not need. Even the guy who can only afford a 1982 Cadillac De Ville bought it instead of a 1998 Escort because its a better fit for who he is.

Marketing people know this. Trying to rationalize the appeal of an EV entirely based on economic and social-political factors misses the mark.

 

[dpeilow]

Death of the Electric Car: Li-ion Batteries Too Valuable for Plug-In Vehicles -- Seeking Alpha

I wonder who's paying this guy off?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Death of the Electric Car: Li-ion Batteries Too Valuable for Plug-In Vehicles -- Seeking Alpha

I wonder who's paying this guy off?

This guy again? He's been saying this same story for at least a couple of months (to my knowledge). I think the idea he is pushing is lead carbon batteries.

Lead-Carbon: A Game Changer for Alternative Energy Storage -- Seeking Alpha

So basically he's not anti-EV or anti-plug-in. He's just against lithium for some reason.

 

[TEG]

I wonder who's paying this guy off?

This guy again? He's been saying this same story for at least a couple of months (to my knowledge). I think the idea he is pushing is lead carbon batteries.

So basically he's not anti-EV or anti-plug-in. He's just against lithium for some reason.

Did you guys read to the disclosure at the bottom of his story?

Disclosure: Author is a former director of Axion Power International (AXPW.OB), a developer of advanced lead-carbon batteries, and holds a large long position in its stock. He also holds small long positions in lead-acid battery producers Exide Technologies (XIDE) and C&D Technologies (CHP), and zinc-bromine flow battery developer ZBB Energy (ZBB).

 

[stopcrazypp]

Did you guys read to the disclosure at the bottom of his story?
[/B][/I]

:redface: Most of the time in these cases, I don't bother to read the whole article because I know it is essentially BS from reading the title and the first paragraph.

 

[vfx]

:redface: Most of the time in these cases, I don't bother to read the whole article because I know it is essentially BS from reading the title and the first paragraph.

The problem is if we don't speak up these clowns put out disinformation that people believe.

We are seeing pushback to EVs from a more stealthy place these days.

 

[dpeilow]

More FUD: Batteries Included: The Dodgy Economics of the Electric Car | BNET Auto Blog | BNET

 

[JRP3]

Anytime someone mentions a ridiculous price for batteries just point them to this link: http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TS-LFP100AHA

 

[Iz]

More FUD: Batteries Included: The Dodgy Economics of the Electric Car | BNET Auto Blog | BNET

Roadster has been on the streets for nearly 2 years.

Will 2010 be the year the electric car finally generates some sales?

 

[ChargeIt!]

Right ! And I would love this to happen this year

Leaf, Chevrolet Volt, Fisker Karma and Tesla Model S are all planning rollouts this year and the buzz is certainly brewing.