Installing a HPWC?

[Ceilidh]

On the slightly side topic of 6-50r wall sockets:

I have looked extensively without any success to find a NEMA 6-50p to NEMA 14-50r connector.

Has anybody successfully located one? Has anyone built their own?

I do realize that Tesla is offering a 6-50p tip for the mobile charge connector, but I don't want to have to carry around a second extension cord for tricky situations and I already have a 14-50 extension cord just in case. And as mentioned above, these 6-50 configs are welding plugs so the vast majority of them when found will not be close to one's parking spot but rather indoors somewhere. I don't think I could rely on an owner having an appropriate extension cord.

If I had one at a distance fairly close to somewhere I parked the 50 amp charging would be worth the extra effort over a typical wall plug if those were my only options... if that is doable.

This is my first EV so not sure if this is reasoned thinking or not but I seem to recall Roadster owners using 6-50 plugs from time to time and being really happy that they had the plugs on those occasions where there was no 14-50 or j1772 available. In some cases, the 6-50 could easily offer more power than a j1772 anyway since many are for some odd reason only 30 amps in the wild.

With the number of adapters and such that seem important to lug around I want to minimize the weight and clutter in my trunk when I go on trips. It's going to end up looking like an electrical swiss army wiring mess as is, and those 50 amp capable extension cords weigh a ton, even at only 15 ft.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Cheers.

 

[roblab]

On the slightly side topic of 6-50r wall sockets:

I have looked extensively without any success to find a NEMA 6-50p to NEMA 14-50r connector.

Has anybody successfully located one? Has anyone built their own?


Cheers.

I have built my own short adapter: Get some flex #6 wire, red, black, green, no ground. Wire a 6-50 plug as you would normally, with red and black to the spades, and the green neutral/ground to the round peg. Then on the other end, a 14-50 outlet, wired with red/black to the two power spades, wire the green to the neutral spade, and then a short jumper wire from the neutral spade to the ground peg plug. You can build an adapter for almost any type of outlet you may encounter, adapting to a 14-50, then only carry the 14-50 extension cord. Make sure it's all at least #6 wire. Doesn't have to be flex, just makes it easier, but for short adapters, who cares.

There are some on this forum that feel that extension cords will spontaneously ignite and burn the house down, or that adapters will ruin the car. Tesla uses adapters and extension cords at the factory all the time. The only danger is not understanding what you are doing, as that is the danger. Read up on it, or visit with someone who knows. I have made a dozen adapters for different outlets, and there must be at least half a dozen outlet types for 220v 50 amp plugs.

Unlike Tesla, it's not rocket science!

email me if you want more: stelling att napanet daught net.

 

[Cottonwood]

I have looked extensively without any success to find a NEMA 6-50p to NEMA 14-50r connector.

Has anybody successfully located one? Has anyone built their own?

I do realize that Tesla is offering a 6-50p tip for the mobile charge connector, but I don't want to have to carry around a second extension cord for tricky situations and I already have a 14-50 extension cord just in case. And as mentioned above, these 6-50 configs are welding plugs so the vast majority of them when found will not be close to one's parking spot but rather indoors somewhere. I don't think I could rely on an owner having an appropriate extension cord.

If I were you, I would just get the Tesla adapter for the UMC and not do anything else. The few times that I have used an extension cord have been to get power from a dryer or range plug in a house. The chances of finding a 6-50r where you can't drive your car close are incredibly small. The real, practical use for the 6-50 is to use your HPWC wiring until the HPWC arrives. You don't need an extension cord for that.

If you really want a 6-50p to 14-50r adapter, make one for yourself, label it for Tesla charging only, and put big red warnings on it. This will be a non code adapter, only for your use. If it were me, I would tie the ground in the 6-50p to both the neutral and ground of the 14-50r. I know that this violates the rule to never connect neutral to ground other than at the service entrance, but if some fool uses your pirate adapter for their RV, they won't create voltages on the 120V circuits that could cause a fire. Hopefully a GFCI somewhere will trigger in that case. When you use your pirate adapter to power your UMC, the UMC ignores the neutral anyway. Remember your mileage may vary. :biggrin:

 

[Ceilidh]

Thank you both very much for the info.

Greatly appreciated.

 

[FlasherZ]

Has anyone built their own?

As Cottonwood says, mark it "TESLA CHARGING ONLY" and throw it away when you get rid of the car. This is critical, because there are ways of blowing up certain appliances when they're connected in certain ways. (With a floating neutral and two unbalanced 120V loads on different legs, you'll generate serious problems by creating a 240V circuit through two 120V appliances.) This *will* happen if you use that adapter cord with an RV, for example.

If I had one at a distance fairly close to somewhere I parked the 50 amp charging would be worth the extra effort over a typical wall plug if those were my only options... if that is doable.

Truck repair / machine shops / etc. are good places to call if RV parks aren't nearby and you need some quick miles. My welding outlet is 3' from my machine shop's 12' door.

- - - Updated - - -

Then on the other end, a 14-50 outlet, wired with red/black to the two power spades, wire the green to the neutral spade, and then a short jumper wire from the neutral spade to the ground peg plug.

Again, mark it "TESLA CHARGING ONLY" and throw it away/sell it/give it away when you disposition the car. If the neutral is ever used on the 14-50 side of this adapter, it means that the grounding conductor will be used to carry current, a giant no-no. In subpanels, detached garages, etc., the grounding conductor is permitted to be smaller than the grounded conductor (neutral) because it's intended for safety only.

There are some on this forum that feel that extension cords will spontaneously ignite and burn the house down, or that adapters will ruin the car. Tesla uses adapters and extension cords at the factory all the time. The only danger is not understanding what you are doing, as that is the danger. Read up on it, or visit with someone who knows. I have made a dozen adapters for different outlets, and there must be at least half a dozen outlet types for 220v 50 amp plugs.

It's not really that they will spontaneously ignite and burn the house down, or ruin the car. We've established these adapters will work ok and have little risk when used with the car (or other 240V-only loads). The issue is that a 14-50 is not just used for cars, and when used for another purpose can indeed cause fires. Moreover, your homeowner's policy likely says that if your house burns to the ground and it is found that you are using something that's not UL-listed (whether it caused the fire or not), it can be a reason for denying an insurance claim.

 

[Ceilidh]

Out of curiosity, is there a significant difference in using a 3 conductor 50 amp cord and bridging it at the 14-50 r end vs a 4 conductor 50 amp cord and bridging it at the 6-50 ground pin on the plug? Forgive my ignorance, but my non-electrician brain is thinking this would be 6 in one half dozen in the other.

I ask because i already have some extra 4 conductor 50 amp cord. Alternately, i could use the cord and leave one of the conducting wires out of it all together, or just buy some new 3 conductor cord.

Thanks for any input.

 

[doug]

I have looked extensively without any success to find a NEMA 6-50p to NEMA 14-50r connector.

Amazon.com: Hobart 770674 Adapter Cord: Home Improvement

This allows you to plug a NEMA 6-50 into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I don't think you'll find the other way around off the shelf.

 

[FlasherZ]

Amazon.com: Hobart 770674 Adapter Cord: Home Improvement

This allows you to plug a NEMA 6-50 into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I don't think you'll find the other way around off the shelf.

You won't -- it's against UL listing requirements and code because a general-purpose 14-50R requires a neutral and a 6-50P can't supply it. RV's in particular - the main consumer of a 14-50 besides electric ranges - split 120V circuits across the neutral and such a cord would blow those appliances up.

 

[pilotSteve]

To those that have HPWC on (back)order.... is Tesla supplying you the 6-50p tip for your mobile charger at time of delivery? Did you have to specifically request one, or did they know to supply it?

I just had electrician install my 6-50 receptacle in a box using my 100A wires (changed to a 50A breaker of course) but I'm wondering how proactive does one need to be so they can actually charge the day your car was delivered?

 

[Jason S]

To those that have HPWC on (back)order.... is Tesla supplying you the 6-50p tip for your mobile charger at time of delivery? Did you have to specifically request one, or did they know to supply it?

I just had electrician install my 6-50 receptacle in a box using my 100A wires (changed to a 50A breaker of course) but I'm wondering how proactive does one need to be so they can actually charge the day your car was delivered?

They offered and actually gave me one with delivery. I handed it back because I'm not going to use the 6-50 and instead just have the electrician out once to install the HPWC when it arrives.

 

[FlasherZ]

To those that have HPWC on (back)order.... is Tesla supplying you the 6-50p tip for your mobile charger at time of delivery? Did you have to specifically request one, or did they know to supply it?

I just had electrician install my 6-50 receptacle in a box using my 100A wires (changed to a 50A breaker of course) but I'm wondering how proactive does one need to be so they can actually charge the day your car was delivered?

My car arrived yesterday with 60 rated miles of charge on it, so it needed to charge. I had a 14-50 preinstalled in my second bay for a second EV, so I could use that but my machine shop has a 6-50 as well.

I ordered an HPWC; if you do so, you'll receive 4 adapters - the J1772 adapter, then the NEMA 5-15 (120V), 6-50, and 14-50 for the UMC. If you didn't order an HPWC, you'll only get a 14-50 and 5-15 plus the J1772.

Even if you don't need it for your charging setup, I'd recommend you keep the 6-50, only because any place with a welder and machine shops will have these. My father-in-law, for example, has a 6-50 in his shed -- so I can charge at 30 mrph when visiting.

Edit: my DS told me HPWC will arrive "within the next month".

 

[dhrivnak]

You won't -- it's against UL listing requirements and code because a general-purpose 14-50R requires a neutral and a 6-50P can't supply it. RV's in particular - the main consumer of a 14-50 besides electric ranges - split 120V circuits across the neutral and such a cord would blow those appliances up.

I do not see how. The neutral and ground are tied to the SAME buss bar. If you jumper them there should be no difference as both the neutral and ground terminate at the same place and there is 0 ohms difference between the two.

 

[Sparrow]

I am getting an HPWC and was never offered the 6-50 adapter. I am assuming that is because I told my DS I not only had 2 J1772s in my garage, but a 14-50 as well.

 

[mitch672]

I do not see how. The neutral and ground are tied to the SAME buss bar. If you jumper them there should be no difference as both the neutral and ground terminate at the same place and there is 0 ohms difference between the two.

Neutral and Ground are only supposed to be tied together at the service entrance, by code.

They each have different functions; Neutral carrys return current on each 120V leg, while ground is supposed to only be used for fault current, as a safety, the grounds are undersized because of this, and they are NOT supposed to be carrying any current, normally.

 

[FlasherZ]

I do not see how. The neutral and ground are tied to the SAME buss bar. If you jumper them there should be no difference as both the neutral and ground terminate at the same place and there is 0 ohms difference between the two.

Incorrect! Only in ONE PLACE is this true - the service entrance facilities. Everywhere else, neutral and equipment safety ground are kept separate and in fact it is now ALWAYS required to maintain separation between neutral and ground in any subpanels. Moreover, the equipment safety ground is many times smaller than a neutral (for example, on a circuit requiring #4 conductors, the ground is required only to be #8). In many cases it's not insulated (NM-B cable). These are reasons why it is NEVER permitted to carry current normally. And you'll find that many times there is a resistance difference of a few ohms between a separated neutral and ground because of wire distance. Bonding them together elsewhere would create an alternate path.

The only reason a ground exists is to provide a low-resistance path so that protection devices will trip, and so a human won't provide the primary path (or even contributing to a path) to ground for current.

If you bond these anywhere else, you can create some dangerous situations in case of a failure (for example, if the neutral wire in the feeder breaks or becomes high resistance and current from 120V appliances returns to the transformer through the grounding electrodes). Normally, when you have neutral failure, you get a 240v path through some 120v appliances on different legs and just blow out devices -- if you have the neutral and ground tied together you can create a situation where the path to the transformer goes through a human and his/her body.

See the NEMA 10-30 thread for some of the reasoning. Basically, if you use such an adapter exclusively with the Tesla UMC, it's going to be ok because the UMC does not even connect the neutral. But plug a range into such an adapter and it will connect the neutral with the chassis of the range, creating a potential current return path for 120V loads to the ground through a human.

 

[brianman]

They offered and actually gave me one with delivery. I handed it back because I'm not going to use the 6-50 and instead just have the electrician out once to install the HPWC when it arrives.

They offered the 6-50 (and I said yes...) but I didn't get one at delivery. Apparently they were in short supply or something. My electrician comes out Friday so I'll probably be on the phone Wed or Thurs to try to make sure the 6-50 arrives sooner rather than later.

Just another data point.

 

[William13]

I was never offered the 6-50 even though I have the HPWC on order. I also didn't learn about the wiring until it was too late and had paid for a slightly more expensive wire to be placed.

 

[napabill]

Anybody have any idea when Tesla will offer a NEMA 14-30 adapter? No one seems to know and I need one. Any safe workarounds?

 

[efusco]

I was never offered the 6-50 even though I have the HPWC on order. I also didn't learn about the wiring until it was too late and had paid for a slightly more expensive wire to be placed.

Neither was I, would have liked to have it in case of emergency

 

[Ceilidh]

Anybody have any idea when Tesla will offer a NEMA 14-30 adapter? No one seems to know and I need one. Any safe workarounds?

Make an adapter yourself. It is not very hard. Buy an RV 14-50 female plug and some #6 wire, then put the 14-30 male end on the other side. Alternately, buy a high quality 14-30 dryer outlet, cut the cable about 12-18 inches from the 14-30 male end, and then wire it into the 14-50 female end.

This is easy because they both have the same 4 wires. I am not at all an electrician and would have no trouble doing it myself... if I chose to do so.

Hope that helps.

Cheers.