I hope this means a functioning sunroof will return to the Model S

[P85DBeast]

I had a loaner with a sealed glass roof the other day and made me realize how much I value having a sunroof that can be opened. Compared to the feeling of an open sunroof, I felt like I was in a sealed capsule.

I hate when I get a loaner with a glass roof but nothing and I mean NOTHING was worse than when I got a loaner Model S with the Body Colored Roof (when it was still an option) I really felt like I was in a coffin then and I was sooooo happy when I got my car back.

 

[BPeter]

While Tesla is desperate for profit and striving for easier and cheaper manufacturing, I believe this approach is having a significant negative impact on sales of the S and X. Model S sales were down significantly in April to 825 from 2225 in March. X sales of 1050 in April, down from 2175 in March. One would think that without competition, S and X sales would be at least growing slowly.

As I said up thread, I would love to purchase another new S, but it needs to be compelling with features typically found in six-figure automobiles. Otherwise, unfortunately for Tesla, I am really, really happy with my AP1 P90DL.

S and X sold more than they should have in March due to the fire sale on inventory units.

 

[DCEV]

From what I can see, Tesla is desperate for profit at this point and has, and will continue to, remove content and standardize their cars for easier and cheaper manufacturing. They can do this without significant sales impact because there is no serious competition at all.

They can do this without significant sales impact? I doubt removing options and features from the Model S helped sales.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/04/tesla-model-s-anticipated-upgrade-and-refresh/

Well, competition is coming. We love having a sunroof in our car and our next car will have a sunroof that can be opened as well. It's an essential feature for us.

 

[Pantoot]

They can do this without significant sales impact? I doubt removing options and features from the Model S helped sales.

Tesla Model S / X sales crash against anticipated upgrade, end of full US tax credit, Model 3 cannibalization

Well, competition is coming. We love having a sunroof in our car and our next car will have a sunroof that can be opened as well. It's an essential feature for us.

My wife agrees. I was ready to upgrade her AP1 90D to a new P100D, but when she saw there was no sunroof she killed the deal.

 

[PhilDavid]

My wife agrees. I was ready to upgrade her AP1 90D to a new P100D, but when she saw there was no sunroof she killed the deal.

It's great news that the Model S and X now has increased range, but we wouldn't want to lose the sunroof in order to get the increased range. I realize they want to streamline production but I wish it didn't mean that they would eliminate a popular and useful option like a functioning sunroof.

I hope there is a functioning sunroof in the works as a part of a broader interior refresh...

 

[SMAlset]

I doubt this means a sunroof that opens is on the way. The patent sounds like features found on Boeing 787 Dreamliner with electronically adjustable tinting. Very cool. But that would be more complicated to implement with moving parts that require power / LED wiring, etc.

Unfortunately I'm in agreement with your assessment of the patent info and that no opening sunroof is in the works. More like Moonroof with adjustable tinting. I Love the ability to open the sun roof on our 2017 MS and really do miss it on my Model 3, good thing I didn't wait to buy it hoping it would happen. Sunroof and ventilated seating (plus leather) my biggest missed features from the current lineup.

 

[SMAlset]

It's great news that the Model S and X now has increased range, but we wouldn't want to lose the sunroof in order to get the increased range. I realize they want to streamline production but I wish it didn't mean that they would eliminate a popular and useful option like a functioning sunroof.

I hope there is a functioning sunroof in the works as a part of a broader interior refresh...

There was a time when Elon had projected that the S/X line would have I think a couple hundred different order options over the Model 3. Somehow think they feel that is undoable right now if they need to keep production up and growing. I recently checked out the options for the Model S online and was surprised at how few there were, but understand the timing right now for the company. Unless they add another assembly line that would just focus on producing more customized versions...and assume increased pricing to offset the reduced production level...I don't see it happening any time soon. I am curious to see what a refreshed version will include for options. Tesla would get some cost savings from reduced wiring and other over time improvements but will that allow them to add feature sets and keep the car at a competitive price point with cars that will be coming out down the road?

While as you said the range increase can be appealing, losing features you love makes it tough if not impossible to make the jump to a new vehicle. My husband and I have had this discussion a few times as new equipment/features has come out, and we're still happier with our current car. For us the range has been enough in our weekly driving and infrequent trips.

 

[PhilDavid]

There was a time when Elon had projected that the S/X line would have I think a couple hundred different order options over the Model 3. Somehow think they feel that is undoable right now if they need to keep production up and growing. I recently checked out the options for the Model S online and was surprised at how few there were, but understand the timing right now for the company. Unless they add another assembly line that would just focus on producing more customized versions...and assume increased pricing to offset the reduced production level...I don't see it happening any time soon. I am curious to see what a refreshed version will include for options. Tesla would get some cost savings from reduced wiring and other over time improvements but will that allow them to add feature sets and keep the car at a competitive price point with cars that will be coming out down the road?

While as you said the range increase can be appealing, losing features you love makes it tough if not impossible to make the jump to a new vehicle. My husband and I have had this discussion a few times as new equipment/features has come out, and we're still happier with our current car. For us the range has been enough in our weekly driving and infrequent trips.

I agree with you completely but perhaps there can be some middle ground between hundreds of options and basic features like a sunroof.

If the lack of a sunroof keeps people from trading in their older Model S for a newer one any cost savings will be a moot point. Given that Model S approaches twice the cost of a Model 3, and soon Porsche and others will offer other alternatives, I think Tesla will be in a better position maintaining the sunroof and interior options many take for granted in this price segment.

You made a comment earlier about leather. You should really go to a gallery and try out the new seating surface Tesla has created. It is GREAT and if someone told you it was leather, you'd likely believe them. We love the new seating surfaces and Tesla has shown you don't need leather to have a great premium feeling seating surface so while they can make changes and improvements, I wish they would not remove features like the sunroof.

A sealed roof is nothing like having the sunroof open on a beautiful day. We had a Model S loaner with a sealed roof for 2 days and we really missed the sunroof in our car.

 

[SMAlset]

[QUOTE="PhilDavid, post: 3626934, member: 77672"....You made a comment earlier about leather. You should really go to a gallery and try out the new seating surface Tesla has created. It is GREAT and if someone told you it was leather, you'd likely believe them. We love the new seating surfaces and Tesla has shown you don't need leather to have a great premium feeling seating surface so while they can make changes and improvements, I wish they would not remove features like the sunroof.....[/QUOTE]

I have a Model 3 AWD LR with the premium faux leather material, 9/2018 build. Has it changed since then? The material is soft and I find it comfortable but we had some hot days already and found that I had a sticky back and such. I think it holds in the heat against your skin more so than leather did since I don't think it breathes as well as leather (and this is without the ventilation). I found our Model S leather seats a bit firmer than the soft Model 3 faux seats and so maybe one's body also squishes in to the seat more as a result on the softer material. If we couldn't have leather at least would have loved to have bought a ventilated version of the faux. But I am right there with you on the sunroof.

 

[ElectricTravel]

They sold boatloads of them for $1500-2500.

The problem is the whole thing is a warmed over turd as far as longevity/reliability goes and they probably needed to charge $4k to break even on their warranty costs.

This, 100%.

The sunroof was designed and manufactured in-house, unlike most brands that outsource to expert suppliers (e.g. Webasto, etc.) There were a lot of unusual aspects to its design, and reliability and serviceability were big problems. I don't know the warranty costs, but they must have been huge. Later, they redesigned what they could without making big changes, which improved reliability (and importantly, improved serviceability to reduce warranty costs) but there was only so much that could be changed without a massive redesign.

I wonder what percentage of these sunroof issues they had could have been fixed by training service center staff on the proper use and application of Dupont Krytox. Once I had rattles and squeaks and this is what our Mercedes dealer applied to the roof railings and it instantly fixed all the issues.

Krytox was one of the fixes tried, among many others. After much experimentation, a common set of repairs and standard order of performing the repairs was codified, which seemed to take care of most problems well enough.

Tesla needs to have some premium features available on the S/X and not on the 3/Y.

This is a really good point. Features only available on the S/X would make it easier to upsell customers and help them rationalize spending more on the higher models (even if it's not so rational when you think about it, all that's needed is the customer rationalizing it to themselves).

 

[David29]

FWIW, I had sunroofs on Mercedes sedans staring in the 1970s. Early ones were manual, but later ones were electrically operated. I never had major issues with any of them in 35-40 years of using them. Occasional cleaning and lube of the track was about all we had to do. I might have had a repair one of them, but it was not major. So, it was not rocket science to build one that seals properly and operates smoothly.
But having said that, the Tesla sunroof is different from the ones I had on Benzes in two important ways that might make the comparison imperfect. First, the moving piece of the Tesla roof is physically larger than any I had before, as is the opening. Second, the Benz roof panel slid under the roof at the rear, and that was steel, whereas the Tesla moving piece is lifted up and over the rear section, which is another sheet of glass. I do not know how those design differences might affect leak rates, noise or reliability.
My Model S has a sunroof and I do enjoy using it occasionally, mainly in pleasant weather in the spring and fall. I suspect the number of actual hours I use it might be smaller than I imagine....

 

[PhilDavid]

FWIW, I had sunroofs on Mercedes sedans staring in the 1970s. Early ones were manual, but later ones were electrically operated. I never had major issues with any of them in 35-40 years of using them. Occasional cleaning and lube of the track was about all we had to do. I might have had a repair one of them, but it was not major. So, it was not rocket science to build one that seals properly and operates smoothly.
But having said that, the Tesla sunroof is different from the ones I had on Benzes in two important ways that might make the comparison imperfect. First, the moving piece of the Tesla roof is physically larger than any I had before, as is the opening. Second, the Benz roof panel slid under the roof at the rear, and that was steel, whereas the Tesla moving piece is lifted up and over the rear section, which is another sheet of glass. I do not know how those design differences might affect leak rates, noise or reliability.
My Model S has a sunroof and I do enjoy using it occasionally, mainly in pleasant weather in the spring and fall. I suspect the number of actual hours I use it might be smaller than I imagine....

The Tesla panorama roof is large but so is the panorama room of an S Class.There are plenty of cars with large panorama sunroofs where the whole front glass pane moves. We've had several cars with this feature and the sunroofs were well designed with no issues. I'm sure Tesla engineering can build a sunroof that functions as well as the panorama sunroofs of other premium cars.

I agree with everyone who had said that a panorama roof would be a good up-selling feature for Model 3 buyers and really make the decision easier for existing Model S buyers who have a panorama roof, love it as much as us, and want a panorama roof in their next car.

Even if the lack of a sun roof affects 10-20% of potential Model S sales, that's a huge loss. I just wish they would design and improve the sunroof than discontinuing it. I'd trade the extra range of a 2019 Model S to a 2018 Model S with a sunroof.

 

[Ketchups]

Sunroof is a musk-have. I use it to vent all the time, nice fresh air, and it's better than opening a window - which I dislike. That's my issue with the model 3 and X, no sunroof - felt like I was trapped in.

Now having a sunroof comes with it's problems. Today, my sunroof is stuck open at 60% and will not close or open any further. I suspect the motor is binding and it's disabled as a precaution.

 

[DCEV]

Sunroof is a musk-have. I use it to vent all the time, nice fresh air, and it's better than opening a window - which I dislike. That's my issue with the model 3 and X, no sunroof - felt like I was trapped in.

This is one of the biggest reasons we too prefer a Model S to an X or 3.

I also much rather prefer to get fresh air from the sunroof than roll down the windows.

It's really too bad such a popular and much loved option was discontinued...

 

[PhilDavid]

I was watching some older Model S videos for nostalgia last night and watched the excellent Model S video from 2012 with Jay Leno and Franz. At one point they were both talking about how wonderful the sunroof of the Model S is...

The sunroof was great back in 2012 and it is still great now and I wish they would bring it back and there is a sunroof in the works for the Model S redesign.

 

[PhilDavid]

I found the video where they discuss the sunroof (6:24). You can see even inside the garage, how inviting it gets inside the car when the sunroof is opened...

If anyone has not seen this video from 6 years ago, watch it from the beginning. The crazy thing is 7 years after the Model S was announced, if Mercedes or Audi announced a car with the exact same specs, it would be still lauded cutting edge and this is Tesla technology from 7 years ago.

 

[roblab]

If Tesla offered an opening roof as an option for $1000, I bet it would not sell.

Of course the two Tesla owners who actually use their "sunroof", who like their hair blown, who like bugs flying in, who don't mind getting dust and grime inside their car, value an opening glass roof. All I'm saying is that MOST drivers don't value it that much and leave it closed MOST of the time.

I'm a little bit OCD and MUST have a clean car inside and out. I'm allergic to bee stings (6 times to ER), and need my hair to look like I combed it sometime this week. And I personally wouldn't pay a thousand bucks to get a glass roof to open once or twice in six years. I probably was wrong to think others might be like me.

 

[kavyboy]

Of course the two Tesla owners who actually use their "sunroof", who like their hair blown, who like bugs flying in, who don't mind getting dust and grime inside their car, value an opening glass roof. All I'm saying is that MOST drivers don't value it that much and leave it closed MOST of the time.

I'm a little bit OCD and MUST have a clean car inside and out. I'm allergic to bee stings (6 times to ER), and need my hair to look like I combed it sometime this week. And I personally wouldn't pay a thousand bucks to get a glass roof to open once or twice in six years. I probably was wrong to think others might be like me.

I still have pine needles in the trunk from bringing the last Christmas tree home. We won't talk about my hair. So, yep, people are pretty different (thankfully).

 

[RDoc]

We also really like our S's sunroof and use it a lot. However, as others have pointed out. Unless and until Tesla has real competition they can de-content their cars to produce them more cheaply and still sell all they can make.

 

[PhilDavid]

Of course the two Tesla owners who actually use their "sunroof", who like their hair blown, who like bugs flying in, who don't mind getting dust and grime inside their car, value an opening glass roof. All I'm saying is that MOST drivers don't value it that much and leave it closed MOST of the time.

I'm a little bit OCD and MUST have a clean car inside and out. I'm allergic to bee stings (6 times to ER), and need my hair to look like I combed it sometime this week. And I personally wouldn't pay a thousand bucks to get a glass roof to open once or twice in six years. I probably was wrong to think others might be like me.

No one is forcing you to pay thousands so you can continue to travel in a cocoon without worry

The sunroof was always an OPTION for those who wanted one. Not everyone is content with your limitations and I am OCD about my car interior as well and partly the reason we have a light colored interior is because we can then tell if something is not clean. In the nearly 3 decades of owning cars with light interiors, I've never had issues keeping the interior pristine with regular use of the sunroof.

Don;t look for a career in statistics because you somehow extrapolated an option that was selected by about 75% of actual Model S purchases to "two Tesla owners."

As for your assertion that "MOST drivers don't value it," the majority of Model S owners who opted to pay extra for a sunroof would disagree with that statement.