Help for Buying First Fixer Upper Model S

[frontporch]

Hello,
I have recently become interested in picking up a model S because I have always loved the look of the vehicle (not really crazy about other Teslas) and the prices have become affordable. For example I found a 2013 with 94K for sale for 11,500. The catch is that it has a coolant leak. Owner bought at auction and drove it for 3 months before the issues surfaced. From what I have learned up until now, it is a RWD and may very well have the Large Drive Unit coolant issue.

What follows are some questions and I hope I might get some guidance here.

If I were to pickup this model S, I have read about repairing the RDU with bearings and seals, with a parts cost around $1000. If the unit is unrepairable and I cannot find a suitable LDU, is there any possibility I could part out and limit my losses?

Also anyone know how frequently these LDUs are deemed unrepairable? I know the issue is coolant in the motor and eventually in the inverter, but it was purchased prior to the winter cold and ran well at that point (according to seller)

One feature this car has and I am willing to deal with the upkeep is the operable panoramic sunroof. From what I have learned, the AWD (non performance) model S vehicles appear to have less issues (at least with the drive units). Is it common to find a two motor model S with the sunroof?

Thanks!

 

[NV Ray]

I just had my rear drive unit replaced on my 2012 P85 with one of Tesla's new (not reman" "U" version seal delete manifold RDU. QC Charge recently introduced a similar after market coolant delete device. COOLANT DELETE Tesla Large Drive Unit

Pic shows what seal delete manifold/coolant delect does. Basically stops initial coolant flow through rotor. However, stator, inverter, and gear box cooling remain the same.

 

[brainhouston]

if car still drives n didn't get isolation errors then LDU should be ok
u will have to do coolant bypass n dry the stator/inverter if needed
if its 85kwh pack then those are knows to fail, so gamble will be, can u get ur money back in parts without HV pack...

u can also pick one up straight from auction urself to limit ur possible losses even further...

 

[frontporch]

Pic shows what seal delete manifold/coolant delect does. Basically stops initial coolant flow through rotor. However, stator, inverter, and gear box cooling remain the same.

I wish that picture focused on the part that was different where the seal is located. Everything else was the same.

The QC Coolant Delete is interesting. It appears that the coolant now bypasses the LDU and instead cooling is done with oil. There picture has what looks like an oil pump, so a new part that includes an oil cooling loop where coolant used to be. I have read about this idea and it looks like they went with it.

 

[frontporch]

if car still drives n didn't get isolation errors then LDU should be ok
u will have to do coolant bypass n dry the stator/inverter if needed
if its 85kwh pack then those are knows to fail, so gamble will be, can u get ur money back in parts without HV pack...

u can also pick one up straight from auction urself to limit ur possible losses even further...

Isolation errors are a result of electronics being compromised in the inverter?

The coolant bypass similar to what was mentioned by QC? I have seen lots of disucssion of overhaul with several seals and the two expensive bearings on the motor's ends.

Regarding the 85kwh pack, what is the story with those? I did an online breakdown of the VIN and it is RWD, Tier 7 Battery 81-90kwH

Finally, in NJ there are lots of restrictions to buying at auction. You have to pay some minimal fee, but also you need to have a zoned property suitable to show cars and some office space for a showroom. Unfortunately they don't let you say you have a driveway and a room in your house. You don't need either in reality, but that is the state requirements. There are workarounds to everything, but the only one I have found is to pay a large fee for someone to represent you and that doesn't seem like it would be easy.

 

[NV Ray]

I wish that picture focused on the part that was different where the seal is located. Everything else was the same.

The QC Coolant Delete is interesting. It appears that the coolant now bypasses the LDU and instead cooling is done with oil. There picture has what looks like an oil pump, so a new part that includes an oil cooling loop where coolant used to be. I have read about this idea and it looks like they went with it.

Coincidentally both Tesla and QC has gone with "coolant delete". As far as I'm aware, no oil cooling of the rotor with this bypass, although QC has advertised as additional oil cooling add on coming soon. Based on Mr. Tony Williams, owner of QC Charge, need for rotor cooling is minimal unless one is drag racing in extremely hot weather or towing.

I'm not too worried about rotor not being cooled - it's made of copper with high heat tolerance, it might get some cooling from the stator cooling.

And lastly, I just paid Tesla around $7k for their new "U" version with a 4 year/50k warranty. Figure I could be their test case

Why did I replace? Although my "spaceship" sound itself is probably something endemic with older, stainless steel bearing RDU/LDUs (mine was a 2013 replacement on my 2012 P85) and not a showstopper (until any alerts), the tipping point for me to replace was: (1) coolant detection in speed sensor and in hole where speed sensor was removed, (2) recent release of Tesla's newest "U" seal delete manifold version, supposedly designed to mitigate coolant leakage, (3) ability to save on sales tax by having work done in Oregon, and (4) ability to keep old drive unit and get money back by selling it. The latter two saved about $2k.

Pics are of my old and new RDU.

 

[frontporch]

Finally, in NJ there are lots of restrictions to buying at auction.

Appears I can't yet edit my own posting. What I meant to say here is that the restriction to buy at auction is you have to be a registered dealer. To be a dealer in NJ you have to meet the requirements of having a "showroom" and space for vehicles, and a sign. You can typically only do this on property with the specific zoning. Purchasing yourself, through a broker, seems expensive and haven't really looked into it much.

 

[frontporch]

Based on Mr. Tony Williams, owner of QC Charge, need for rotor cooling is minimal unless one is drag racing in extremely hot weather or towing.

Good to know. I did notice the $599 QC coolant delete has the fittings for the oil cooling but they do say you need the tubing, oil container, radiator and electric pump. They mention pulling from a Model 3, but maybe those things could also be sourced from other suppliers. In the end, if its not needed, might be better to do without

 

[NV Ray]

Good to know. I did notice the $599 QC coolant delete has the fittings for the oil cooling but they do say you need the tubing, oil container, radiator and electric pump. They mention pulling from a Model 3, but maybe those things could also be sourced from other suppliers. In the end, if its not needed, might be better to do without

You may have seen this, but fantastic explaination of pre "coolant delete" cooling of the RDU by Prof Kelly. Basically "coolant delete" only takes out that first portion into rotor tube. All the rest remain. Video cued to start -

 

[frontporch]

Not that I would consider this, but if the rotor shaft was cut and didn't extend into the housing with the lip seal, you could get away with the equivalent of a freeze plug.

On second thought (my edit works now!!) I would consider trimming off the shaft and replacing the troublesome seal with a plug

 

[NV Ray]

Not that I would consider this, but if the rotor shaft was cut and didn't extend into the housing with the lip seal, you could get away with the equivalent of a freeze plug.

On second thought (my edit works now!!) I would consider trimming off the shaft and replacing the troublesome seal with a plug

You're right. I know several other 3rd party professionals and DIYers that have taken QC's device idea and simply modifying, then reusing the existing Tesla cover.

 

[NV Ray]

@frontporch Just remember these cars are expensive to maintain. The cost of the replacement pack can be more than the car's worth, and certainly not something you'll recoup if you get in an accident totaling your vehicle or when selling. We are in a time when these once $100k+ cars are 1/5-1/4 of that original price, thus (more) affordable to many who have longed for this wonderful car.

My advise is to set aside $10k-$20k in an interest bearing account for repairs. If you don't use it, fine. If you don't have those repair funds, you should consider other cars.

That said, my MS is the first car I've owned in the past 45 years in which I make excuses to just drive. Worth the $$ to keep them going.

 

[frontporch]

Can anyone tell me more about the battery issue? I didn't see anything specific to this model of car that was anything like the motor failure.

I have also seen battery repair and its not for the faint of heart. just removing the lid seems like a weekend task (for those that are planning its reuse).

Also does anyone know the availability of the panoramic sunroof on the model S? was it a feature on all models?

 

[KalJoMoS]

I wish that picture focused on the part that was different where the seal is located. Everything else was the same.

Do you see the difference now?

 

[frontporch]

I did see the difference in those pictures but didn’t know how the bypass was working
It helped me to see the QC part and the Weber video

 

[NV Ray]

@frontporch sent you PM.

 

[brainhouston]

Isolation errors are a result of electronics being compromised in the inverter?

The coolant bypass similar to what was mentioned by QC? I have seen lots of disucssion of overhaul with several seals and the two expensive bearings on the motor's ends.

Regarding the 85kwh pack, what is the story with those? I did an online breakdown of the VIN and it is RWD, Tier 7 Battery 81-90kwH

It could be inverter if coolant got there or stator if coolant sat there long enough
Bearings could be fine if coolant didn't wash away the grease, all about catching it early enough
U got some more learning to do, VIN won't tell u anything about HV pack in a tesla... decoders don't work for teslas...

Appears I can't yet edit my own posting. What I meant to say here is that the restriction to buy at auction is you have to be a registered dealer. To be a dealer in NJ you have to meet the requirements of having a "showroom" and space for vehicles, and a sign. You can typically only do this on property with the specific zoning. Purchasing yourself, through a broker, seems expensive and haven't really looked into it much.

i meant to pay the dealer
i pay flat $150 to use my local dealers account to play any car i like
u obviously have to pay all the auction fees based on winning price
was just a suggestion to u if u wanted to save even more but the hassle is not for everyone...

Can anyone tell me more about the battery issue? I didn't see anything specific to this model of car that was anything like the motor failure.

I have also seen battery repair and its not for the faint of heart. just removing the lid seems like a weekend task (for those that are planning its reuse).

Also does anyone know the availability of the panoramic sunroof on the model S? was it a feature on all models?

Join FB group BMS u029, it has all the info

 

[brainhouston]

Not that I would consider this, but if the rotor shaft was cut and didn't extend into the housing with the lip seal, you could get away with the equivalent of a freeze plug.

no need to cut the rotor that's a lot of extra work
u can easily make a plug on lathe like this:

DIY Tesla Drive Unit Repair

yeap this is what howard brought up earlier...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[goodbadboys9]

Unless you have access to lift it is bit harder to drop the DU.

If the car is running then it seems like a decent price buy incase if the car isn't running I wouldn't suggest going that route.You might be better off spending additional 5-6k on 2014 or 15 85D & have a much more reliable car.

 

[KalJoMoS]

One feature this car has and I am willing to deal with the upkeep is the operable panoramic sunroof. From what I have learned, the AWD (non performance) model S vehicles appear to have less issues (at least with the drive units). Is it common to find a two motor model S with the sunroof?

Thanks!

That interested sunroof lasted until 2017 (or was it 2018) so not only with early cars. Around 2015 it was changed to gen.2 apparently with better quality. As @goodbadboys9 suggested I would also look into 2015 or newer.