2015 P90D vs. 2019/2020 LR/+ MS

[GammaDelta]

I have not read a lot of comparisons of the early/mid-generation Model S compared to the newer models. I would love to hear from anyone who has done this leap (P90D/P85D to LR) and if they like or regret their decision.

I'll preface this by saying I really do love my 2015 P90D, but as I am coming to the end of the Tesla warranty at the end of the year - I can't help to think of the matzo ball hanging out there: the eventual battery and LDU replacement. I have been playing with the idea of selling the P90D, and looking at a MS LR with Raven. But is this worth it?
On my research, it seems like the 100kwh battery is the highest quality. And the permanent magnet front motor (Raven) has the efficiency bump for the LR, and the SDU rear motor does not have the coolant ingress of the LDU, so from a reliability standpoint seems solid.

On paper, the 2019/2020 LR have a 3.7 0-60, and my 2015 P90D has a 3.2 0-60. So on paper, not that different, but the range goes from 230 (P90D) to 375 (2020LR)

The real leather, the sunroof, the driving feel is awesome on the P90D. FUSC and FPC (premium connectivity) is great too. I also prefer AP1 (we have a FSD M3 as well, it feels buggy) But the cost of the new battery and LDU is significant. Am I crazy to want to hold on the ol P90D?

 

[PCMc]

Give me a few weeks and I may be able to give you some specific views compared to a mid-2016 AP1 vintage MS90D (sorry, no P). I have a new 2023 MS LR schedule for delivery middle of next week. Good chance I'll be taking it on a few trips of 500-1000 miles round trip each over the next 3 weeks. Presuming all goes smoothly, I may have a good 2,500 miles on it by first weekend in January.

 

[beatle]

I made a similar change a year ago as the warranty of my P85D was expiring in a few months.

I still miss AP1 for highway trips and stop and go. AP3 was especially garbage in traffic up until sometime this fall. Now it no longer makes me sick while I'm in stop and go. It is faster to change lanes than AP1 which is also nice, though make sure you shop for a car that at least has EAP.

The extra range is noticeable and helpful for some trips, as is the much faster charging. I take a trip to western NY that I never took in the P85D. The limited range would make it tight, and I'd have to charge to 100% halfway through. Your P90D probably charges faster than my P85D did, but the raven cars are faster than either. My 2019 performance is down to 326 on a full charge, but even that is plenty. The LR will go further still.

Adaptive suspension is also very good, especially compared to the standard air suspension. I think it's a little less sporty than the performance plus I had, but it's a lot more comfortable without being wallowy.

Sentry is a neat addition, though not as useful as I thought it would be since everything triggers an alert.

I assume you have already moved on to MCU2 in your car, but if not, that is another huge difference. I made the change in my P85D and it was well worth it.

I miss the sunroof, but not as much as I thought since the glass is nice. I have a Miata for nice days anyway.

The newer cars are quieter - even quieter than my P85D that I installed sound damping material in.

True one pedal driving is also very welcome. You no longer need to use the brake under 5mph when coming to a stop, and you retain stronger regen at lower speeds. This is one of the most underrated improvements of the 2019+ cars IMO.

I don't like replacing cars so often, but I'd rather sleep well with a lighter wallet than have the battery and LDU failures hang over my head.

 

[GammaDelta]

I made a similar change a year ago as the warranty of my P85D was expiring in a few months.

I still miss AP1 for highway trips and stop and go. AP3 was especially garbage in traffic up until sometime this fall. Now it no longer makes me sick while I'm in stop and go. It is faster to change lanes than AP1 which is also nice, though make sure you shop for a car that at least has EAP.

The extra range is noticeable and helpful for some trips, as is the much faster charging. I take a trip to western NY that I never took in the P85D. The limited range would make it tight, and I'd have to charge to 100% halfway through. Your P90D probably charges faster than my P85D did, but the raven cars are faster than either. My 2019 performance is down to 326 on a full charge, but even that is plenty. The LR will go further still.

Adaptive suspension is also very good, especially compared to the standard air suspension. I think it's a little less sporty than the performance plus I had, but it's a lot more comfortable without being wallowy.

Sentry is a neat addition, though not as useful as I thought it would be since everything triggers an alert.

I assume you have already moved on to MCU2 in your car, but if not, that is another huge difference. I made the change in my P85D and it was well worth it.

I miss the sunroof, but not as much as I thought since the glass is nice. I have a Miata for nice days anyway.

The newer cars are quieter - even quieter than my P85D that I installed sound damping material in.

True one pedal driving is also very welcome. You no longer need to use the brake under 5mph when coming to a stop, and you retain stronger regen at lower speeds. This is one of the most underrated improvements of the 2019+ cars IMO.

I don't like replacing cars so often, but I'd rather sleep well with a lighter wallet than have the battery and LDU failures hang over my head.

This is a great answer and right what I was looking for, and I believe this is how I will feel about that transition as well. There are some things I will miss with the P90D, but overall it seems like the 2019+ is indeed an improvement even if a little slower. AP1 I think may be the biggest thing I will miss - it is buttery smooth and does not change lanes unless instructed to, but those lane changes take 20-30 seconds. FSD changes lanes too often clumsily.

Yeah my P90D still pulls 120kw at the SC until I hit 50% SOC, then tapers off to 75kw. But never had an issue with that charging speed for long trips. And FUSC is nice, but 90% of the time I charge at level 2.

Honestly, the quiet cabin I didn't even think about. But the one-pedal driving would indeed be welcome - the one thing I like on our M3 over the P90D.

I don't like replacing cars so often, but I'd rather sleep well with a lighter wallet than have the battery and LDU failures hang over my head.

I 100% agree with this. The price difference is almost like pre-paying for a new battery and DU - which may not happen for a long time, but I like it not hanging over my head. Does your 2019 MS Performance have the same LDU, but a newer revision?

 

[beatle]

AFAIK all LDUs in the pre-refresh cars are the "same" in so much as they all have the seal issue, but I'd be happy for someone to correct me. I'm not sure of the revision my car currently has. I bought my 2015 when it was 4 1/2 years old. I never had the LDU replaced, but I'm unsure of its past.

If you're buying a LR, I believe even the ravens had the small rear drive unit so the potential seal failure would be a non-issue.

 

[Esko]

Good topic! I’ve been struggling with the same decision lately. I bought 2016 P90D 2 years ago and love the car. Car had CPO warranty on when I bought the car which was great. Ended up replacing both headlamps, trunk lid opening system etc. Under warranty. Also the previous owner was very ”active” to find faults and use the warranty. Car has now 113tkm which is around 70t miles. I have driven with the car for the last 30tkm or 18t miles. When I got the car, when 100% charged I got 385km or 240miles range on the tacho. After that the range has dropped gradually to 360km or 223 miles. I did BMS calibration a week ago but it didn’t help any. Degradation would be then around 17% if it should have 434km or 270miles when new. I mostly charge at home to 80% and SC maybe 5-10 times per year. Now the battery and powertrakn warranties are ending september this year and I’ve been wondering what to do. Do I keep the car or sell it and buy LR Raven? I thought I bought the car with good price 2 years ago from my friends friend. And even one year later looked prices that if I would wanna sell it, I would get pretty much the same money back what I paid. After that Tesla and EV prices has dropped way down in Europe. Now it looks like my P90D selling price has dropped at least 20.000€ during second year of owning the car! I do like Model S and also the other versions of Model S have dropped their prices because of this Tesla price war against China EV’s. So buying for example LR Raven would not need more that maybe 5-10k€ more if I find buyer for my P90D for myself. Trade is not option because it seems that car dealers do have some sort of fears against older EV’s especially when they are going out of warranties. When having owned many M5’s etc in the past. I thought that P90D would be great car to try next. Low maintenance and running cost and great performance. Yes the 0-100 acceleration is great but after 2 years of owning the car, I mostly drive my P90D in sports mode. That is still fast as hell in daily driving. I might once a month try ludicrous mode but that’s it. Nowadays I prefer range more than ludicrous performance. LR Raven has still under 4s 0-100 which is more than enought for me. Having this all written down now I think i’ve made my decision to go forward and buy LR Raven

 

[GammaDelta]

@Esko Glad you were able to do some soul-searching during that post. When I got to the end I would have suggested the same for you. If you value range and reliability over performance, then LR Raven is your ticket.

For me, I have decided to hold on to the ol P90D. I ended up getting a U revision LDU under warranty and have deep-dived into battery health metrics - of which my battery seems solid. Those two things are pretty much the only long-term worries. I also drove a 2020 MS LR Raven, a 2019 MS LR 100D, a 2017 MX 100D, a 2022 MS Plaid, and a new LR Y. They all drove fine, but they felt a little cheaper IMO (different for everyone). Also, FSD just doesn't hold a candle to AP1 for my use.

 

[Kaskaskia309]

I own 2 used Model S. A 13 and a 14. I just picked up a one owner 2020 LR ADW, pearl white model 3, under 25kmiles, price $30500 , yesterday from Indy and dropped it off in the Jasper In. area. The GF's first Tesla ever. Love my Model S' but the Model 3 is a whole new evolution, far ahead of the older models. I would buy newer models now if I could afford it, Peace to you.