HPWC to J1772 adaptor

[hcsharp]

I'd like to pay under $250.

Well, jesla is $1000, umc is $650. So there's $350. Tesla j adapter is $100. I think the price point is between $100 & $350.
...

... Based on other adapters, somewhere between 100 & 150 seems reasonable - though bespoke solutions often have a premium so up to 200? (Completely guessing here ;-)).

You two might be interested to know that the Model S inlet alone in my adapter costs north of $275. That doesn't include the latch and switch mechanism, not to mention the whole other end of the adapter. Nobody makes off-the-shelf pins and sleeves that you can just order from Digi-Key. They have to be custom made and then plated. Sure I could save a lot with higher volume, more plastic and less anodized aluminum. But when the perceived value is between $100 and $350 (and you don't want to pay more than 250), you might be better off thinking about other accessories that are more in line with your expectations.

EDIT: Re-reading my post, I was perhaps a little harsh, and I clearly set you up for it. I'm sorry for that. It's been a long day.

 

[TOBASH]

You two might be interested to know that the Model S inlet alone in my adapter costs north of $275. That doesn't include the latch and switch mechanism, not to mention the whole other end of the adapter. Nobody makes off-the-shelf pins and sleeves that you can just order from Digi-Key. They have to be custom made and then plated. Sure I could save a lot with higher volume, more plastic and less anodized aluminum. But when the perceived value is between $100 and $350 (and you don't want to pay more than 250), you might be better off thinking about other accessories that are more in line with your expectations.

EDIT: Re-reading my post, I was perhaps a little harsh, and I clearly set you up for it. I'm sorry for that. It's been a long day.

Henry:

I will be buying a Tesla Sedan D at some point soon and would love for you to make a J-1772 to Sedan Adapter.

I think you should set up a crowdfunding site, and get investors. There will be many of us.

Then you will not operate at a loss OR have to deal with individuals who do not understand the economics involved.

Your posts were not harsh, and the involved posters just don't understand the costs involved with what you do. They will catch on and then I bet they will be some of your best and most loyal customers. It is just that not everyone will at first glance understand the incredible amount of work you do to make your products.

Given that there are many Model S owners, I believe you will easily be able to start a home grown industry that will operate at a profit.

EDIT - [Will your or the Tesla J1772 to Roadster adapter attach to a roadster to Model S adapter and function?]

Best,

T

 

[NigelM]

One would hope there aren't too many model s owners so self entitled, but I suspect you might be right.

Let's go easy on the labels. It's arguably more self-entitled to want free access to something you haven't paid for or even contributed towards.




Note: request has been put into the section mods to move this discussion to the original thread here ---> Model-S-to-J1772-adaptor
Edit: Now moved and merged.

 

[qwk]

One would hope there aren't too many model s owners so self entitled, but I suspect you might be right. That said, I believe Elon when he says he wants to promote EV adoption, not simply Tesla adoption.

Fortunately, innovators like Henry don't believe in limitations. Here's to hoping Henry makes it and Tesla doesn't!

I really don't see how that adapter is going to help EV adoption. It's not like many people are going to be buying J1772 crippled EV's just because they can charge at a few scattered HPWC's. If anything it will hurt Tesla, because their own cars will be blocked from charging by cars that can only utilize 1/8th of the power available.

 

[hcsharp]

Henry:

I will be buying a Tesla Sedan D at some point soon and would love for you to make a J-1772 to Sedan Adapter.

I think you should set up a crowdfunding site, and get investors. There will be many of us.

Then you will not operate at a loss OR have to deal with individuals who do not understand the economics involved.

Your posts were not harsh, and the involved posters just don't understand the costs involved with what you do. They will catch on and then I bet they will be some of your best and most loyal customers. It is just that not everyone will at first glance understand the incredible amount of work you do to make your products.

Given that there are many Model S owners, I believe you will easily be able to start a home grown industry that will operate at a profit.

EDIT - [Will your or the Tesla J1772 to Roadster adapter attach to a roadster to Model S adapter and function?]

Best,

T

Thanks for your support. Every Model S and D comes with a J1772 adapter so you won't need me to make one. What you won't get is a Roadster connector to Model S adapter (so you can charge your D with your Roadster charger). Fortunately Tesla sells such an adapter so you'll be covered there.

 

[Panicopticon]

The Model S inlet alone in my adapter costs north of $275.

That was in line with my guess -- actually I'd figured it cost a bit more, considering assembly labor, but I've also done a bunch of work with Cannon and other weird connectors.

I continue to be no end of impressed with your dedication to the community. The adapters you've designed are amazing, brilliant engineering. If you built a S-J adapter I'd likely buy one, I'd expect it to be roughly comparable in price to the current adapters.

 

[Tedkidd]

You two might be interested to know that the Model S inlet alone in my adapter costs north of $275. That doesn't include the latch and switch mechanism, not to mention the whole other end of the adapter. Nobody makes off-the-shelf pins and sleeves that you can just order from Digi-Key. They have to be custom made and then plated. Sure I could save a lot with higher volume, more plastic and less anodized aluminum. But when the perceived value is between $100 and $350 (and you don't want to pay more than 250), you might be better off thinking about other accessories that are more in line with your expectations.

EDIT: Re-reading my post, I was perhaps a little harsh, and I clearly set you up for it. I'm sorry for that. It's been a long day.

No biggie. The way you asked the question implied you wanted an uninformed answer, so I used the only reference points available.

Sounds like materials alone would approach $500. At what you'd need to charge you might sell two. (One to me and one to Panicopticon.) And going into your busy season likely means might not be ready until next December. Oh well...

Too bad. I think the market for such an adapter is much MUCH larger than CAN SR, but it would need to be inexpensive enough to both have mass appeal and to prevent attractive opportunity for others to enter and compete. Both of these suppositions points to the $22,800 injection molded part, and a kickstarter project.

I also think it could help drive Teslas superior charging as a standard. (But to be completely honest, I've only used Tesla charging so J1772 plugs inferiority is something I've yet to fully understand. Maybe its less significant than I imagine.)

 

[MikeBur]

You two might be interested to know that the Model S inlet alone in my adapter costs north of $275. That doesn't include the latch and switch mechanism, not to mention the whole other end of the adapter. Nobody makes off-the-shelf pins and sleeves that you can just order from Digi-Key. They have to be custom made and then plated. Sure I could save a lot with higher volume, more plastic and less anodized aluminum. But when the perceived value is between $100 and $350 (and you don't want to pay more than 250), you might be better off thinking about other accessories that are more in line with your expectations.

EDIT: Re-reading my post, I was perhaps a little harsh, and I clearly set you up for it. I'm sorry for that. It's been a long day.

Hi Henry,

I'm glad I was away and didn't read your original response if it required the editing ;-)

Asking opinions of "how much you'd like to pay" is going to result in answers based on context and knowledge of the recipient. I would have thought the "only guessing" would have indicated that these were both minimal.

I have never held or seen the price of your connector anywhere on this thread (my self-professed only context), so was basing soley on the known other "adapters" offered by Tesla, and with the presumption of mass production, vs. bespoke.
Upon further investigation 220V turbocords for J1772 are 650$, so the figure is somewhere under this for my needs. Remember, this is not for me to get a free lunch (as it were) at public HWPCs, rather for having one EVSE and servicing multiple EVs in my own houses so I can offer plugshare services to other. I don't own another EV even, yet. There is additional utility for a 220v charging cord for Leaf's, etc which is weighed against another dedicated EVSE.

I hope this gives additional context, and by return: in order to guide expectations given your costs here - what would be a reasonable price for you to consider this worthwhile? I definitely prefer to satiate and feed labours of love vs. dampen them through perception of lack of value.

Thanks, Mike

 

[Cosmacelf]

When I had the option to install at my place of business, I chose to go with 100 amp Clipper Creek / Sun Country units. They will charge a Tesla just as fast as a HPWC, but will also connect to any other EV out there that chooses to drop by.

That's exactly what I did, except that I'm a cheap bastard, so I only bought the 60 amp version (48A output). I shelled out $600 knowing that I could have gotten an HPWC for free (I guess I'm not that cheap!). The J1772 has been well used, mostly, of course, by other types of EVs.

 

[Dave EV]

That's exactly what I did, except that I'm a cheap bastard, so I only bought the 60 amp version (48A output). I shelled out $600 knowing that I could have gotten an HPWC for free (I guess I'm not that cheap!). The J1772 has been well used, mostly, of course, by other types of EVs.

You could get the HPWC for free and then have two L2 charging points for the cost of labor and a bit of wire to wire up another station? The only thing better than 1 charging station is having a 2nd!

I wonder if Model S inlets could be had cheaper from wrecked cars than making them from scratch? I wonder if Tesla would sell you one.

 

[Tedkidd]

So after driving the Smart for a month I'm loving this car!
And for $150 a month it's delivering well beyond it's cost. The thing is a riot:

(no track to TDI - not getting any use!!)

(My pal Bill with his LEAF after the Rochester PSC "REV" meeting.)

I'm still interested in a CAN SJ, but I did get a Leaf charger and had it EVSE Upgraded so it'll charge at the "full" 3.3 when I go to Ontario County Park biking. It's clear that the stock trickle charger is fine for home use as Smartelectric mentioned (though if that EVSE becomes unreliable as it's showing signs of - having fast charge at home might be nice).

Having more chargespeed when you need a few miles to make it home, or take the edge off range anxiety in slushy/snowy single digit weather really matters with this tiny pack. This renders the stock charger pretty useless as a portable.

I really think the CAN SJ could sell well. It would drive up not only HPWC purchase by multi-car owners like GG, and people planning for the future and interested in sharing on Chargepoint like me, but also destination adoption.

I talked to a winery owner yesterday who wants to add charging, and an adapter would throw a lot of weight in the HPWC side when deciding between J1772 EVSE and HPWC.

 

[Tedkidd]

Tony Williams of Quick Charge Power is developing an adaptor, estimated cost $200.

Eta summer-fall. "full 80 amp support."

Very exciting! I'm going to get a HPWC for home charging for my Smart and to offer on Plugshare.

I'm also going to promote HPWC as the EVSE of choice to people interested in destination charging (like the winery owner), explaining that it can be adapted to all cars. This is how we drive the standard away from j1772 to a world of Tesla.

 

[bonnie]

Tony Williams of Quick Charge Power is developing an adaptor, estimated cost $200.

Eta summer-fall. "full 80 amp support."

Very exciting! I'm going to get a HPWC for home charging for my Smart and to offer on Plugshare.

I'm also going to promote HPWC as the EVSE of choice to people interested in destination charging (like the winery owner), explaining that it can be adapted to all cars. This is how we drive the standard away from j1772 to a world of Tesla.

I wouldn't make any final decisions until the adapter is actually out and available ...

 

[hcsharp]

Tony Williams of Quick Charge Power is developing an adaptor, estimated cost $200.

Eta summer-fall. "full 80 amp support."

Very exciting! I'm going to get a HPWC for home charging for my Smart and to offer on Plugshare.

I'm also going to promote HPWC as the EVSE of choice to people interested in destination charging (like the winery owner), explaining that it can be adapted to all cars. This is how we drive the standard away from j1772 to a world of Tesla.

I'm glad to see he's making it rated for 80A. Anything less would be a fire hazard. It brings the question back to the surface, "Is it ethical to charge a non-Tesla vehicle on a destination charger that Tesla paid for?" Probably if nobody else is using it, but what if you plug in and leave and a Tesla shows up later? Personally I think the Tesla should get priority just like Nissan does with the chargers at their dealerships.

If many of these S -> J adapters go into circulation it's possible Tesla will make their chargers incompatible with J1772 vehicles. The sad part about that is most people probably just want to charge non-Teslas at home with HPWCs and UMCs that they buy themselves. The other sad thing is it might prevent the long-term changing of the standard from J1772 to the far superior Tesla coupler as @Tedkidd mentioned.

It's an interesting road ahead and we have to pave many parts of it ourselves... after getting lost a few times I'm sure.

 

[miimura]

I personally would not promote using this adapter in public. The most common use case would be an owner with a Tesla and another EV or PHEV that has a J1772 inlet. In addition, my personal stance would be to ask permission to charge my non-Tesla vehicle at a HPWC. Tesla vehicles have implied permission in my mind.

 

[mknox]

I personally would not promote using this adapter in public. The most common use case would be an owner with a Tesla and another EV or PHEV that has a J1772 inlet. In addition, my personal stance would be to ask permission to charge my non-Tesla vehicle at a HPWC. Tesla vehicles have implied permission in my mind.

See my thoughts on this over in this posting (don't want to duplicate here).

 

[Tedkidd]

I'm with Knox. Creating a "Tesla entitlement tribe" is not going to benefit anyone.

And taking someone's electricity without asking seems somehow, and could easily be perceived as really low class behavior/ bad form/ unappreciative (unless explicitly instructed to).

As EV early adopters, and therefor EV ambassador's of sorts, I'd hope most of us would keep this in the forefront of our minds.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

We have the following situation at my workplace. We have 14 J1772 stations (purchased by Facilities) and 2 Tesla HPWCs (donated by Tesla). Power is free for employees.

When many more than two Teslas need to charge - typically on Mondays after the weekend excursions - one tends to see both HPWCs occupied by Model S, of course, but atleast one or two J1772 spots as well.

Most other times, the Tesla-only spots tend to be severely underutilized (given typical commute patterns over the week and the long range on the MS) even with atleast 6 MS on campus but, the 14 J1772 stations have something like 50-odd non-Teslas contending for them!

I'd definitely advocate for an MS-to-J1772 adaptor to be made available for use in such a setup. If a non-Tesla owner springs for such an adaptor, they have every right to use the HPWCs.

 

[hcsharp]

I'm with Knox. Creating a "Tesla entitlement tribe" is not going to benefit anyone.

And taking someone's electricity without asking seems somehow really low class behavior/ bad form/ unappreciative, unless explicitly instructed to.

Tomorrow I'm going to show up at your house and plug in when you need a charge, preventing you from doing so yourself, and I'll be confident that you won't mind. Don't worry I'll pay for the electricity I use but you might have to be late for work to wait for the charger to be freed up when I'm done. Just because you paid for that charger certainly doesn't mean you should have any say over who uses it. We all know a "Smart EV entitlement tribe" is not going to benefit anyone. Just sayin'

I'm sorry but I can't help but feel like the one who feels entitled is you. I've said before that we need to support the whole EV movement. But it would be counterproductive to start acting like you're entitled to something Tesla (or Nissan) paid to have their own customers use.

Personally I think Nissan has been very generous with their charging equipment and I have no problem at all when they restrict charging to Leafs only or when dealers give priority to Leafs for chargers they paid for. I certainly would never accuse Nissan owners as being part of a "Nissan entitlement tribe" as a result of this policy.

 

[hcsharp]

...
I'd definitely advocate for an MS-to-J1772 adaptor to be made available for use in such a setup. If a non-Tesla owner springs for such an adaptor, they have every right to use the HPWCs.

I agree as long as no Teslas have an urgent need to use them. The HPWCs are fundamentally different from the J1772 chargers. The difference? Tesla paid for them. To enable their customers to charge their cars.