How would you prefer to pay for Supercharging?

[Fourdoor]

Did he? WOW. I suppose that's par for the course ( If you know what I mean).
I wonder if its worth taking a poll as to who believes there will be a 2017 delivery. LOL

Sure there will be a late 2017 delivery, it will be a $60,000+ version of the model 3 and only 5 of them will roll off of the assembly line. And by roll off of the assembly line I mean they will be hand built for delivery to the people rich enough to be put at the head of the list for the "affordable" Tesla

This is why I plan on leasing or purchasing some other BEV while I wait for the Model 3 to actually be available to the public in large numbers in 2019 or thereabouts.

Keith

 

[Garlan Garner]

Sure there will be a late 2017 delivery, it will be a $60,000+ version of the model 3 and only 5 of them will roll off of the assembly line. And by roll off of the assembly line I mean they will be hand built for delivery to the people rich enough to be put at the head of the list for the "affordable" Tesla

This is why I plan on leasing or purchasing some other BEV while I wait for the Model 3 to actually be available to the public in large numbers in 2019 or thereabouts.

Keith

Well that raises my hopes because I plan on getting a maxed out M3. unfortunately I live in Chicago Il.....sooo as I hear....California is first

 

[Red Sage]

Hrm? The 120kW battery (5 years of 5-10% battery improvement per year, figured at the low end) will provide all of 350 miles range. No loss of trunk or frunk or AWD necessary.

Now, 500 miles... at this point a different story but who's to say what will be in 10 years? Porsche will probably offer such a battery along with, say, a network of 4 800A SCs just to say they did. Not all that practical, but if you've ever tried to option a Porsche, you're used to it .

Considering that you can already buy a Porsche Panamera that costs over $260,000...? I wouldn't doubt that if a Mission-e actually ever is built it will start at around $300,000 and go up from there. And any 'network' for charging would be an option for the people who bought the car to install at their own expense on land that they acquired themselves.

As for the mythical 500 mile range battery...? Elon Musk noted that could be done way back in 2014. The fact of the matter is that most people who got one would only use it to drive 350 mile stretches at a time. They would be happy to arrive at a Supercharger with a 20% reserve as a buffer, then recharge to 90% while having lunch. I think that for now, Elon and JB Straubel would prefer someone who knows they are only going to drive 350 miles between stops to be content with a 380-to-400 mile range instead of carting around the extra 100+ miles of capacity without due cause.

 

[TaoJones]

... The fact of the matter is that most people who got one would only use it to drive 350 mile stretches at a time. They would be happy to arrive at a Supercharger with a 20% reserve as a buffer, then recharge to 90% while having lunch. I think that for now, Elon and JB Straubel would prefer someone who knows they are only going to drive 350 miles between stops to be content with a 380-to-400 mile range instead of carting around the extra 100+ miles of capacity without due cause.

I know I'd be happy with 70% (usable/used between 20% and 90%) enabling 350 (even rated) miles from a 500-mile battery. Even better if it was a 600-mile battery software-limited to 500 miles, but I didn't bring enough for everybody .

 

[JeffK]

Did he? WOW. I suppose that's par for the course ( If you know what I mean).
I wonder if its worth taking a poll as to who believes there will be a 2017 delivery. LOL

He did yeah, but he always mentions it with the caveat that it's not cost effective or efficient until capacity per unit mass is increased so you aren't carrying around extra weight and it's actually affordable.
He says 250 - 300 mi is a reasonable goal for now and will work for the majority of people.

I believe Elon will work his butt off to do his best to make 2017 deliveries happen... (not for 500+ mi versions of course )

 

[jkk_]

He did yeah, but he always mentions it with the caveat that it's not cost effective or efficient until capacity per unit mass is increased so you aren't carrying around extra weight and it's actually affordable.
He says 250 - 300 mi is a reasonable goal for now and will work for the majority of people.

I believe Elon will work his butt off to do his best to make 2017 deliveries happen... (not for 500+ mi versions of course )

And to be honest, 300 real world miles, not EPA or NEDC useless miles, would be perfect. That would have enough range so that one doesn't have to worry about it even in the worst kind of conditions.

 

[jgs]

And any 'network' for charging would be an option for the people who bought the car to install at their own expense on land that they acquired themselves.

For an additional fee to be named later, Porsche will have a helicopter carrying a large genset meet you wherever you are and recharge you. It will be free for life, once you've paid the up-front-fee. For a modest additional charge, the chopper will follow you so you don't have to wait for it to arrive, just stop your car near a large flat area.

 

[Red Sage]

He says 250 - 300 mi is a reasonable goal for now and will work for the majority of people.

I believe that Elon Musk and JB Straubel also noted that the 'sweet spot' will be around 350 miles of usable 'Real World' range.

 

[Red Sage]

I know I'd be happy with 70% (usable/used between 20% and 90%) enabling 350 (even rated) miles from a 500-mile battery. Even better if it was a 600-mile battery software-limited to 500 miles, but I didn't bring enough for everybody .

I get the impression that Elon Musk and JB Straubel would prefer to build cars that have what they perceive as 'enough' range in the near future. That is, I don't believe they agree with the folks that claim a 200 mile range is 'too much' or that the performance characteristics of Tesla Motors vehicles are 'unnecessary'... But they do want to strike a balance between the quantity of vehicles they build and the battery pack capacity each one holds, so that they can make the absolute most of Gigafactory output. I just hope that given that attitude, they are aware it has thus far always been the vehicle with the highest available battery pack capacity that was their best seller since 2012. I rather expect that to be the case for Model ☰ as well.

 

[Red Sage]

And to be honest, 300 real world miles, not EPA or NEDC useless miles, would be perfect. That would have enough range so that one doesn't have to worry about it even in the worst kind of conditions.

It would also be right at the current EPA ranges for the Performance variants of direct competitors.

 

[greenemg]

I'm wondering if they will be bundling the Supercharging with an upgraded battery and/or bigger charger to ensure that they both cover the costs of the energy, and to minimize the time to charge.

 

[RobertF]

Whatever system it should, in my opinion, contain some kind of incentive that rewards trip use and penalizes local "free lunch" abuse. Some kind of free outside, say 50miles, of an owners home and pay per use inside. Not sure how Tesla would charge, maybe just a bill.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Wait a minute.... WHAT???? ONLY 3 times in 60 days were there 2 cars at a SC overnight. They NEVER competed for a charging spot?
Where in the world are you guys congested SC's? pictures of congested SC's? These folks never ran into congestion.
Is this congestion thing a farce?

Electric Route 66


We primarily used Tesla’s Navigation tools on our dashboard. We visited 42 Destination Charging spots. It was like home, when away from home; every morning the car was fully charged. What a strategic fit for B&B’s and forward-looking hotel chains. Most had two level 2 chargers, one being Tesla’s charger. Only 3 times in 60 days did we have two cars charging overnight at once. We never competed for charging spot. We had a full, 243 miles of range, on most days. Our days consisted of a couple fluid exchange stops, a lunch at a Supercharger Station and then an early (3 PM) stop, often at a Destination Charger location – surprise lodging.

 

[ChadFeldheimer]

It is precisely because Tesla Motors IS SERIOUS that they don't do such a thing. This would cause the very Supercharger Apocalypse that so many Tesla Owners are afraid the Model 3 would bring on. Because you would end up with Supercharger stalls clogged with plugin hybrids that need throttled down charging rates to protect their tiny little battery packs that provide only 9 to 20 miles of fully electric range.

I wonder if Tesla could account for this by, say, implementing a payment scheme where users pay for time spent in a stall. That way, each user pays in proportion to resources consumed and also contributes to further expansion!

Remember, to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport, we want to be INCLUSIVE (to all EVs). Not EXCLUSIVE (to only Teslas).

 

[ChadFeldheimer]

Wait a minute.... WHAT???? ONLY 3 times in 60 days were there 2 cars at a SC overnight. They NEVER competed for a charging spot?
Where in the world are you guys congested SC's? pictures of congested SC's? These folks never ran into congestion.
Is this congestion thing a farce?

Electric Route 66


We primarily used Tesla’s Navigation tools on our dashboard. We visited 42 Destination Charging spots. It was like home, when away from home; every morning the car was fully charged. What a strategic fit for B&B’s and forward-looking hotel chains. Most had two level 2 chargers, one being Tesla’s charger. Only 3 times in 60 days did we have two cars charging overnight at once. We never competed for charging spot. We had a full, 243 miles of range, on most days. Our days consisted of a couple fluid exchange stops, a lunch at a Supercharger Station and then an early (3 PM) stop, often at a Destination Charger location – surprise lodging.

FYI, it seems pretty clear that they didn't overnight at SC's - they used destination chargers.

Personal anecdote: I've only supercharged once. I didn't have to wait, but when I got back to my car I found someone waiting. They pulled in immediately after I left. This was in Aurora, IL (only 4 stalls).

 

[Red Sage]

I wonder if Tesla could account for this by, say, implementing a payment scheme where users pay for time spent in a stall. That way, each user pays in proportion to resources consumed and also contributes to further expansion!

Remember, to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport, we want to be INCLUSIVE (to all EVs). Not EXCLUSIVE (to only Teslas).

Here's the problem with setting up that type of 'payment scheme'... With Lithium-ion batteries, you must taper the amount of charge over time. Otherwise, you will damage the battery pack. In certain weather conditions, charging will be slower. At a busy Supercharger, paired charging stalls will operate at a slower than maximum rate. All of these factors affect the amount of time that someone will spend at a Supercharger. These are limitations in the technology. There is no way to automatically determine whether someone is spending a lot of time at a Supercharger because of 'abuse'. The Customer should not be penalized for that by being forced to pay additional fees.

 

[Garlan Garner]

FYI, it seems pretty clear that they didn't overnight at SC's - they used destination chargers.

Personal anecdote: I've only supercharged once. I didn't have to wait, but when I got back to my car I found someone waiting. They pulled in immediately after I left. This was in Aurora, IL (only 4 stalls).

I can imagine that to be true. There are a lot of affluent folks around the Aurora / Naperville area. I work in Warrenville. They can afford MS's. It may be more feasible for Tesla to install more SC's in those areas. There are over 20 out where I live and I can assure you that our Country Club Hills SC's ( south east of you) will never be full.

 

[zenmaster]

There is no way to automatically determine whether someone is spending a lot of time at a Supercharger because of 'abuse'.

I'd be surprised if the charger didn't know when the charge was complete, regardless of charging speed.

 

[jgs]

I'd be surprised if the charger didn't know when the charge was complete, regardless of charging speed.

Ah, but is "abuse" overstaying a 100% charge? Or overstaying enough of a charge to get you to your destination? (Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question intended to illustrate that "abuse" is a slippery slope.)

 

[JeffK]

I doubt the battery upgrade on the model 3 will be less than the S/X (per kWh).

It'll definitely be cheaper to manufacture at least.