How much super charging is considered too much for good battery health

[Supcom]

There are plenty of Tesla Superchargers not near interstate highways even if I exclude "urban" 72 kW Supercharger sites.

Examples
Westfield Oakridge (2) | San Jose, CA | EV Station is near California State Route 85 - Wikipedia and California State Route 87 - Wikipedia.
King's Village - Scotts Valley | Scotts Valley, CA | EV Station is near California State Route 17 - Wikipedia.
San Mateo, CA - Park Place Supercharger | San Mateo, CA | EV Station is near U.S. Route 101 - Wikipedia. It's US-101. It doesn't start with I like I-5: Interstate 5 - Wikipedia.

I guess the closest highways starting with an I for these are Interstate 280 (California) - Wikipedia and Interstate 880 (California) - Wikipedia.

Alpine, TX. 60 miles from the nearest interstate exit. But, Terlingua, when built, will probably take the prize for furthest at about 120 miles.

Edit: I see Tonopah, NV is a long way from an interstate. Much further than Terlingua from an interstate at over 200 miles.

 

[ewoodrick]

There are plenty of Tesla Superchargers not near interstate highways even if I exclude "urban" 72 kW Supercharger sites.

Examples
Westfield Oakridge (2) | San Jose, CA | EV Station is near California State Route 85 - Wikipedia and California State Route 87 - Wikipedia.
King's Village - Scotts Valley | Scotts Valley, CA | EV Station is near California State Route 17 - Wikipedia.
San Mateo, CA - Park Place Supercharger | San Mateo, CA | EV Station is near U.S. Route 101 - Wikipedia. It's US-101. It doesn't start with I like I-5: Interstate 5 - Wikipedia.

I guess the closest highways starting with an I for these are Interstate 280 (California) - Wikipedia and Interstate 880 (California) - Wikipedia.

These are not "travel" Superchargers, they are local Superchargers. And while I didn't check them all, those routes don't seem to even be over 50 miles long.

And really examples from Silicon Valley where there are Superchargers less than 10 minutes apart? The first one is 8 minutes from Cherry Avenue Supercharger.

So yes, to be correct, there are plenty of Superchargers that are more than 5 minutes from an Interstate. These would be classified as local chargers and not travel chargers. What's the difference? When you are making a 500-mile trip, these don't play into your planning. These are for running around town.

 

[ewoodrick]

What’s a good mileage buffer to you

I'm happy arriving with 15 miles left. I've seen less. But that needs to be a personal experience thing.

I had a niece get a new Model Y last week, she got a little messed up with things and with kids and meeting, had butt cheek tightening with "I'm not going to make it"

She got in at 7% and has admitted that her range anxiety is much better now.

Of course, I'm someone that has run out of gas 4 times in my life. 2 of the times I rolled into the gas station and had to put my brakes on. One of the times I rolled in, but didn't have to put my brake on, and the last time I was across the street from the station.

 

[gottagofast]

I'm happy arriving with 15 miles left. I've seen less. But that needs to be a personal experience thing.

I had a niece get a new Model Y last week, she got a little messed up with things and with kids and meeting, had butt cheek tightening with "I'm not going to make it"

She got in at 7% and has admitted that her range anxiety is much better now.

Of course, I'm someone that has run out of gas 4 times in my life. 2 of the times I rolled into the gas station and had to put my brakes on. One of the times I rolled in, but didn't have to put my brake on, and the last time I was across the street from the station.

I’ve never thought about running out of gas but that comes down to there’s a gas station almost every 10 - 20 miles where I live, makes it almost impossible to run out

If every gas station had a super charger no one would probably be having this discussion, or if there were as many super chargers as there were gas stations

I’m kinda surprised gas stations haven’t installed 3 or 4 super chargers just to get extra business, bucees did it

 

[Supcom]

So yes, to be correct, there are plenty of Superchargers that are more than 5 minutes from an Interstate. These would be classified as local chargers and not travel chargers. What's the difference? When you are making a 500-mile trip, these don't play into your planning. These are for running around town.

Nonsense.

 

[Rocky_H]

While the percentage is one thing, the number that you should use is the range on the energy graph page. That has the most accurate representation of range.

Not a good idea. That number you are talking about is the general estimated real miles left to empty that it calculates based on the average energy consumption of your past 5, 15, or 30 miles. That's OK for vague averages, but it has no idea of the future route you are planning to drive.

The estimated % on arrival is based on the car looking at that route and including what that specific projected drive would really look like. That includes elevation gain or loss, which can be very significant. It also estimates based on the speeds along that route that it is showing, which may be high speed interstate or lower speed side streets. That's important too. So the estimated % at arrival that is calculated from a real future route is more relevant and accurate to that specific drive.

 

[ewoodrick]

I’ve never thought about running out of gas but that comes down to there’s a gas station almost every 10 - 20 miles where I live, makes it almost impossible to run out

If every gas station had a super charger no one would probably be having this discussion, or if there were as many super chargers as there were gas stations

I’m kinda surprised gas stations haven’t installed 3 or 4 super chargers just to get extra business, bucees did it

In 2 of my 4 times, there wasn't a gas station for 40 miles.

And on the Interstates, there's Superchargers every 50 miles in most places and less than 20 miles on the Interstates on both coasts.

 

[ewoodrick]

Nonsense.

Why do you think that Supercharger classification is nonsense?

It's easy to see how Tesla deploys the two categories.

Guess which ones are travel chargers and which ones are local?

Hint: Big blob of red are local chargers.

The travel chargers are along the Interstates and are right next to the Interstates.

For the heck of it, I looked at the San Angelo charger and while there's not a Interstate, it's just off of the major route.

And then to look at Ozona, a little below San Angelo on I-10, it's right at the exit ramp.

Even in Houston, you can see the local chargers placed along the major routes

 

[Tronguy]

I’ve never thought about running out of gas but that comes down to there’s a gas station almost every 10 - 20 miles where I live, makes it almost impossible to run out

If every gas station had a super charger no one would probably be having this discussion, or if there were as many super chargers as there were gas stations

I’m kinda surprised gas stations haven’t installed 3 or 4 super chargers just to get extra business, bucees did it

It's like this.

One is using the NAV to go somewhere. On a little box near the bottom edge of the screen there's a status window. In it, one finds:

• Distance to the destination (which is either the end point of the NAV or the next Supercharger on the route)
• Estimated % Battery when one gets there. This is the "% Battery" where Tesla has pulled out the Big Guns and makes it as accurate as possible.

At the top of the screen is the "rough guess" mileage left in the battery. This takes the BMS's idea of how much energy is in the battery pack and multiplies it by car's rated kW-hr/mile number. So, it's a rough guess: If one is going up a mountain, the rough guess will show more mileage available than what one is going to get. If one is going down a mountain, that's reversed. If the wind is against one, less mileage. If the wind is with one, more. If one is pulling 90 mph, then it's going to be a lot less. If one is stuck in slow moving traffic, then a bit more mileage. If one is just keeping up with the Joneses, then that estimate is kinda spot on.

But if it's 40 miles to the Supercharger and the mileage number at the top of the screen says one has 80 miles of range, and the numbers are tracking nicely as one approaches the SC (each mile closer has the range decreasing by one mile in lock-step), there's absolutely no need to panic or worry. Even if the % battery number gets into the single digits.

This isn't an ICE's estimator which, in my experiences, can and has been off by huge when the gas tank gets near empty.

I don't make a habit of it; but, one day, a couple of years ago, the SO and I were coming back from a longish trip. The NAV had us stopping at an SC about a dozen miles from home (!). We looked at those two numbers (distance to empty; distance to home), decided to skip the SC and rolled into the house with about 10 miles of range left. Then promptly plugged the car in .

So, this isn't an ICE where one had super-better put gas in the car when the gauge gets down to a quarter tank or an eighth; if the car, on NAV, says one can make it to where one is going, then the car's going to make it there, sans ulcers.

A couple of months ago, we had this fellow with a newish Tesla bombing around the Bear Mountains in upstate New York and Lake George. He'd done a good job with the NAV and had the stops he and his family wanted around the lake, as well as where they were going after the micro-tour. The original NAV stuff had him stopping for a quick charge in Glenn Falls's SC, I think. Part of the path involved going up and down some (small by Western standards) mountains and hills; but the car wasn't freaking out or emitting warnings (which it will do if it predicts a Problem on charge level). Our guy freaked out about the low %charge levels (10%-15%, if memory serves) and ended up sitting at some Level 2 charger somewhere for a couple of hours. He showed up here and we explained to the poor fellow that he could have skipped that charging session: If he stuck to his plan, he would've been fine. Which, after being exposed to the Energy screen, he admitted.

 

[Earl]

These are not "travel" Superchargers, they are local Superchargers. And while I didn't check them all, those routes don't seem to even be over 50 miles long.

And really examples from Silicon Valley where there are Superchargers less than 10 minutes apart? The first one is 8 minutes from Cherry Avenue Supercharger.

So yes, to be correct, there are plenty of Superchargers that are more than 5 minutes from an Interstate. These would be classified as local chargers and not travel chargers. What's the difference? When you are making a 500-mile trip, these don't play into your planning. These are for running around town.

I have to disagree a bit. There are a few Superchargers that are the closest ones to the interstate but are still a little way from the interstates and the only ones around.
Saint George, UT (the faster one is on the opposite end of town from I-15 but a close 72 KW one is a bit closer)
Grand Junction, CO (at the mall well off of I-70)
Lincoln, NE (2, but both are a way from I-80

 

[Supcom]

Why do you think that Supercharger classification is nonsense?

Because you stated that anything more then 5 minutes from an interstate was local. Now, you want to move the goal post to change to anything not on a 'major route'.

Obviously, within a major city there will be chargers that are more convenient to local residents than travelers. And, when siting superchargers outside of cities, Tesla prioritizes along routes where Tesla cars are likely to be found. But, stating that anything not near an interstate highway is for locals was easily debunked nonsense.

 

[David99]

I’m having hard time deciding when the cut off should be for this, like if my warranty expires and my battery dies at 130k miles would it still worth it to buy a battery then

Or if the battery dies at 200k miles should that be the point when I’m like ok I’ll just get a new car

You'll cross that bridge when you get there.

 

[David99]

I don't make a habit of it; but, one day, a couple of years ago, the SO and I were coming back from a longish trip. The NAV had us stopping at an SC about a dozen miles from home (!). We looked at those two numbers (distance to empty; distance to home), decided to skip the SC and rolled into the house with about 10 miles of range left. Then promptly plugged the car in .

A few years ago with my first Model S, when I did long road trips with many charging stops, I would aim to arrive at the superchargers as low as possible and often arrived with 5% to 0%. I knew the roads and car's energy predictions pretty well to be able to do that. Not recommended, but the point is, you can gauge the remaining range very accurately in a Tesla. I'm not doing that any more. It's too hard on the battery and I have been burnt a few times LOL

 

[cwerdna]

I have NEVER seen a Supercharger over 3 minutes from the Interstate. Most of them are less than 30 seconds from the exit ramp.

These are not "travel" Superchargers, they are local Superchargers. And while I didn't check them all, those routes don't seem to even be over 50 miles long.

I was responding to your statement. You'd said nothing about "travel" Superchargers in the earlier post. You moved the goal posts afterward.

And really examples from Silicon Valley where there are Superchargers less than 10 minutes apart? The first one is 8 minutes from Cherry Avenue Supercharger.

Yes. These 3 are pretty close to each other but the first two are only 72 kW "urban" style ones.

San Jose, CA - Blossom Hill Road | Tesla

Schedule a Tesla test drive at a time and date that is convenient for you.

www.tesla.com

San Jose, CA - Cherry Avenue | Tesla

Schedule a Tesla test drive at a time and date that is convenient for you.

www.tesla.com

https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/sanjoseblossomcasupercharger - this is still down as of earlier this week: Supercharger - San Jose, CA - 925 Blossom Hill Road (TEMPORARY CLOSURE, 24 V3 stalls). IIRC, this is the newest site of the three.

From some quick browsing on Plugshare, these two sites are also fairly close by time and both are 150 kW (per Plugshare):

San Mateo, CA - Park Place Supercharger | San Mateo, CA | EV Station

8 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 150kW www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/sanmateosupercharger 101 exit 414A. During peak hours a line forms - be ready for a 30 - 60 min wait. Or use the CHAdeMO chargers in the garage - they are $0.25/kWh, but almost always empty.

www.plugshare.com

Bridgepointe Shopping Center - Target (1) | San Mateo, CA | EV Station

San Mateo, CA - Bridgepointe Pkwy 12 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 150kW www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/sanmbridgepointepkwysupercharger Highway 92 exit 14A. Located near the trees at the far west side of the Bridgepointe Shopping Center next to Target. See separate listing...

www.plugshare.com

Ditto for these from each other:

San Bruno, CA - San Bruno Ave Supercharger | San Bruno, CA | EV Station

12 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 250kW www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/SanBrunoCAsupercharger

www.plugshare.com

The Shops at Tanforan (1) | San Bruno, CA | EV Station

(28) Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 250kW https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/SanBrunoCAsupercharger2

www.plugshare.com

 

[ewoodrick]

I have to disagree a bit. There are a few Superchargers that are the closest ones to the interstate but are still a little way from the interstates and the only ones around.
Saint George, UT (the faster one is on the opposite end of town from I-15 but a close 72 KW one is a bit closer)
Grand Junction, CO (at the mall well off of I-70)
Lincoln, NE (2, but both are a way from I-80

These seem to be within 5 minutes of the Interstate.

The 250kW immediately adjacent to the Interstate in St George isn't there?

Grand Junction is less than 2 miles (5 minutes) from I-70 but immediately adjacent to the green I-70, which I have no ide what green means, but is definitely an alternate route to I-70.

And Lincoln NE, is less than 2 miles from Interstate

 

[ewoodrick]

Folks, I was responding to @gottagofast where they indicated that time had to be added for Superchargers off the long route.
My response was that I've never seen one over 3 minutes. Since that statement I have indeed thought of one and there have been a few examples shown where there are indeed a few, but they are few and indeed far between.

But back to the original splintered subject, if you follow the Tesla Nav's suggestion to charge doing long trips, it will get you there. The Tesla Nav is very conservative and now takes a lot of things into consideration, but its goal is to remove any range anxiety and "get you there"

There are optimizations that folks found many years ago that can get you there faster. Indeed, they come with higher risk and a higher level of range anxiety. They aren't for everyone, but they do significantly reduce the time of travel in an EV.

The basic concept is to charge at the best part of the batteries charging curve. Find a curve or just record the numbers when you next Supercharge. How long does each 10% of the battery take 0=10%, 10-20%, 20-30%? You will find that there is a significant difference in each one of the 10% time and 90-100% is stupidly long. While 0-10% is amazingly short.
So why don't I charge from 0-100%? that last 10-20% just takes too long. It takes about as much time as it does to get from 0-80%

And 0% may be a little (or lot) too low for folks, so let's say 5%, or even 10% to 80%. That's what the Tesla Nav system is going to do.

After doing a little math, it ends up that, contrary to normal belief, (and trust me, I didn't believe it to begin with)

The fastest way to travel in a Tesla is fast. Yes, I'm talking 75+ mph. Sure that's a duh, but remember that your range decreases dramatically at 75 mph.
AND to stop frequently, charging between as low as possible and about 50%


I just did a quick search for a charging graph and

Look at these closely. Notice that at a 250kW Supercharger, you are charging full speed only to about 30%.
At 250kW, you are adding at a rate of over 1,000 miles range per hour.
At 125kW, you are adding at a rate of about 500 miles range per hour.
At 50kW, you are adding at 200 mph.

A little over 10 minutes to get to 50% and 40 minutes to get to 100%

 

[Earl]

The 250kW immediately adjacent to the Interstate in St George isn't there?

Looks like they swapped out the 72KWs for V3s. I haven't been there for a while. Its awesome how things are improving so fast!

Grand Junction is less than 2 miles (5 minutes) from I-70 but immediately adjacent to the green I-70, which I have no ide what green means,

Its the business I-70, not the freeway version. It isn't too bad except for when one gets close to the mall and traffic backs up. 5 minutes is ideal but can be more.

And Lincoln NE, is less than 2 miles from Interstate

I haven't actually charged at these but, I believe there are crazy routings necessary to get back to an entrance or exit from I-80 that can take time. I see that it is 7 minutes for the Hy-Vee one back to I-80 westbound, with several traffic lights. You're welcome to dig into the details yourself if you really care that much. They definitely are not easy on/off at an interstate interchange though - you know, where they put gas stations and truck stops.

 

[gottagofast]

will 2023 and older model y and 3’s get any benefit at all from the V4 super chargers, maybe 5 min improvement atleast? Or will it be 0 improvement

 

[Rocky_H]

will 2023 and older model y and 3’s get any benefit at all from the V4 super chargers, maybe 5 min improvement atleast? Or will it be 0 improvement

I am fairly sure that is no. The functionality that real V4 Superchargers are adding is being able to supply different voltage levels, such as the 400V of the existing cars or the higher 800 or 1000-ish V of the Cybertruck. The existing S, X, 3, and Y can't use 1,000V, so they won't get anything new from V4 Superchargers.

 

[Tronguy]

I am fairly sure that is no. The functionality that real V4 Superchargers are adding is being able to supply different voltage levels, such as the 400V of the existing cars or the higher 800 or 1000-ish V of the Cybertruck. The existing S, X, 3, and Y can't use 1,000V, so they won't get anything new from V4 Superchargers.

Seconded.

But I think I read somewhere that the maximum charge rate for a M3/MY on a Supercharger was 250 kW. Could be wrong on that.

Just so we're clear: When one is doing L1/L2 charging, the car takes in the AC voltage, rectifies it to a DC voltage that is then used to charge the car. The internal DC voltage is set to the point that one gets the desired amount of current at the battery. (This is not the AC voltage and current at the input to the car.) This is one reason that people keep on repeating, with respect to L1/L2, that the charger is in the car.

On DC fast charging, the cabinet out there provides a variable DC voltage who voltage is set by commands by the car; that DC voltage goes, pretty much, straight to the batteries. The car monitors the current and has the outside pedestal adjust its voltage up and down to get the desired current. Which is why those pedestals are called Superchargers, because they're doing a lot more of the charging function than a L1/L2 connection.

That "400V" that people are mentioning isn't like some fixed voltage. A discharged battery has a lower voltage; a charged one has a higher; but it's the car and the BMS that set the current by tweaking the voltage from the pedestal up and down as needed.