Super charge speed if battery not pre-conditioned prior to arrival

[Mike_M3]

Doing my first long road trip in a few weeks which will require me to use the super charge network (Cardiff or Newport) for the first time. I’m aware that if the car navigation is used and it directs me to a SC it will pre-condition the battery prior to arrival so optimal charging speed can be achieved. Just wondering what charging speed could I expect if I arrived at a SC without pre-conditioning. My thinking is I may not want to use energy uncecssarily pre-conditioning the battery as I could arrive at the SC and it be full and thus I then may want to charge elsewhere or later.

For reference I have a M3 RWD highland.

Does anyone know from experience how busy Cardiff or Newport SC’s are?

Thanks
Mike

 

[LoudMusic]

Preconditioning does not consume much energy. And if you are going to head to another charger site you'll want the car preconditioned for there.

Non-preconditioned battery charge speed is woefully slow. Often less than 80kw, when you could be getting more than 200kw.

The only circumstance I would not precondition is if I expected to arrive with less than 5% initially.

 

[GHammer]

I beg to differ on preconditioning not using much energy. It can pull up to 6kw and I have seen it use up to 10% of my battery on particular legs. I have turned off navigation if I see what I think is the car turning on precon too early and reengage it closer to my destination and have seen no reduction in charge speed. No preconditioning in cold weather can significantly impact charge speed.

 

[browellm]

<Berniesanders.jpg>

Once again, I am begging Tesla to introduce some intelligence into pre-conditioning. There is zero point pre-conditioning a car for a heavily utilised V2 charger which will be limited to around 60kW.

I heavily dispute the "preconditioning does not consume much energy" statement, too. Depending on conditions/distance to charger it can push consumption well into the >400Wh/m category.

 

[Mike_M3]

I beg to differ on preconditioning not using much energy. It can pull up to 6kw and I have seen it use up to 10% of my battery on particular legs. I have turned off navigation if I see what I think is the car turning on precon too early and reengage it closer to my destination and have seen no reduction in charge speed. No preconditioning in cold weather can significantly impact charge speed.

Thanks, that is my fear of using too much energy pre-conditioning. How much in advance of charging is sufficient preconditioning? 10 mins? I have. M3 RWD, so think charging speed is limited to 175kwh

 

[GRiLLA]

Doing my first long road trip in a few weeks which will require me to use the super charge network (Cardiff or Newport) for the first time. I’m aware that if the car navigation is used and it directs me to a SC it will pre-condition the battery prior to arrival so optimal charging speed can be achieved. Just wondering what charging speed could I expect if I arrived at a SC without pre-conditioning. My thinking is I may not want to use energy uncecssarily pre-conditioning the battery as I could arrive at the SC and it be full and thus I then may want to charge elsewhere or later.

For reference I have a M3 RWD highland.

Does anyone know from experience how busy Cardiff or Newport SC’s are?

Thanks
Mike

I think you are overthinking it, the car will make better judgements than you. Newport has 12 250kW Superchargers, I've never waited there but even if you did the average would be one car leaving every 3minutes assuming 40 minute charges.

Right now there are 10 of 12 available to use at Newport and 6 of 8 at Newport.

In 4.5 years of driving Tesla I've only had to wait once for a SuperCharger, and that was in 2019 when the Model 3 could only charge at 2 SuperChargers per site.

 

[Mike_M3]

I think you are overthinking it, the car will make better judgements than you. Newport has 12 250kW Superchargers, I've never waited there but even if you did the average would be one car leaving every 3minutes assuming 40 minute charges.

Right now there are 10 of 12 available to use at Newport and 6 of 8 at Newport.

In 4.5 years of driving Tesla I've only had to wait once for a SuperCharger, and that was in 2019 when the Model 3 could only charge at 2 SuperChargers per site.

Perhaps I am over thinking things. I’ve had an ev for a year now (4 weeks with a Tesla) so just want to be prepared for my first charging experience away from home.

I did have a brief experience at a SC when I first got the car at a SC near my home…I got the last bay and it was broken! Then by the time I worked that out there were 2-3 cars waiting…so not great. Hoping Cardiff/Newport will be better as I’ll have the kids with me too.

 

[GHammer]

Thanks, that is my fear of using too much energy pre-conditioning. How much in advance of charging is sufficient preconditioning? 10 mins? I have. M3 RWD, so think charging speed is limited to 175kwh

It depends on several factors, first supercharge of the day or subsequent, how cold the car is to begin with, out side temperature, how long driving. I generally let the car do it's thing on the first leg, on subsequent legs 10 minutes is probably not enough, 20-30 is more like it. It also depends on your goals, are you trying to save money, time, or conserve charge to make it or just being ecologically conservative. If your concern is about conserving charge to reach destination, i wouldn't be unless you are really cutting things close, the car is pretty smart. Saving time you definitely want to let the car do it's thing. Saving money, well it doesn't save a lot but everyone has their price sensitivity. My major concern is traveling long distances in the US mountain west where chargers are sparse and weather can be dangerous. I dont suppose that's an issue in the UK.

 

[a1psx]

I would navigate to where you want to go if you can as it'll direct you to a supercharger that's not busy if others are. I've had that when heading home was wanting me to go to Leicester Retail park but then diverted to Rugby as Leicester must have gotten full.

 

[M1tch]

I’ve been heading to a SC before (and so pre-conditioning) the car decided that are was too busy (not sure it it takes into account others navigating there or not) and it routed me elsewhere, straight in, charged and off again.

I wouldn’t worry. Set your destination and go (assuming you have the ability to charge at your destination)

Also, if you don’t pre-condition to save energy, it will heat the battery as part of the charging so take more time and use the energy to do so anyway.

 

[Mike_M3]

I don’t have the ability to charge at my end destination, will be using SC’s for the 4 days I’ll be away, will probably need 3 charges I think. Hence I think I’ll just aim for a SC near where I want to go and charge back up to 90%, and if I have to wait then so be it. I don’t want to be diverted to other SC’s as apart from Cardiff/Newport not that many near where I’ll be.

 

[Masklin]

In my experience if you don’t precondition, as you’re charging the car will probably tell you it’s also warming the battery as it charges. So it’s probably swings and roundabouts, either way some energy will be used to warm the battery.

As far as charging speed is concerned, I tend to think more in time rather than kWh and I can’t say I’ve ever felt significantly delayed just because I didn’t precondition. Talking minutes after all, not hours.

 

[Cilonen]

Skip Cardiff (8x 250kW) & just go for Newport (12x 250kW). Almost no chance of having to wait there even though this SC is open to all, as there are loads of other chargers. It's not brilliantly signposted though, being in the grounds of Celtic Manor hotel, but away from the hotel. Basically, from the main road, follow the pin on the Nav, & turn uphill every junction until you see the bank of SCs.
It's a 5 min walk through the grounds to the hotel if you need a loo break, and there is NOTHING at the SCs themselves. Cardiff is no better, as it's a service centre on an industrial park, with nothing nearby. Unless they've updated recently (like Nottingham) & put in a customer centre (seating, wifi, loos, etc - 24 hr) it's not worth the diversion off the M4.

 

[Mike_M3]

Skip Cardiff (8x 250kW) & just go for Newport (12x 250kW). Almost no chance of having to wait there even though this SC is open to all, as there are loads of other chargers. It's not brilliantly signposted though, being in the grounds of Celtic Manor hotel, but away from the hotel. Basically, from the main road, follow the pin on the Nav, & turn uphill every junction until you see the bank of SCs.
It's a 5 min walk through the grounds to the hotel if you need a loo break, and there is NOTHING at the SCs themselves. Cardiff is no better, as it's a service centre on an industrial park, with nothing nearby. Unless they've updated recently (like Nottingham) & put in a customer centre (seating, wifi, loos, etc - 24 hr) it's not worth the diversion off the M4.

This is really helpful, thanks!

 

[phxazcraig]

Doing my first long road trip in a few weeks which will require me to use the super charge network (Cardiff or Newport) for the first time. I’m aware that if the car navigation is used and it directs me to a SC it will pre-condition the battery prior to arrival so optimal charging speed can be achieved. Just wondering what charging speed could I expect if I arrived at a SC without pre-conditioning. My thinking is I may not want to use energy uncecssarily pre-conditioning the battery as I could arrive at the SC and it be full and thus I then may want to charge elsewhere or later.

For reference I have a M3 RWD highland.

OK, if you have the RWD, you have the LFP battery chemistry. Much of what you hear will not apply to LFP batteries.
1. The maximum charge speed of the M3 RWD Highland is 170K. That will only happen for a brief time around 10% charge level, if I've read the charging curve graph correctly. Most of the time you will be below 150k charge rate, so keep that in mind. Won't do you any good to hit a V3 charger if you have full access to a V2.
2. LFP batteries can (should) be charged to 100% routinely, which is one reason they are smaller than the 'performance' batteries that normally don't want to be charged above 80%.
3. With a slower-charging-rate battery, there is a bit less need to precondition. You'll never see those 250kw speeds anyway.
4. Regardless of battery types, Teslas charge at different speeds depending on the percentage the battery is at. Fastest speeds happen briefly, between 5 and 20%, in general. Each type of battery will charge at some high speed, then start charging slower and slower and slower. The speed you get at a SC is quite dependent on the level of charge at arrival. For instance, my MYP (different battery type than yours) does best from 5-30%. If I arrive at a SC with 30%, I've basically screwed myself on charging speed by arriving too full. Much faster to hop from charger to charger doing 10-40% than to do the same thing at 30-60%. LFP batteries are different though, as they (in comparison) have a flatter charge curve, but also slower.

 

[yessuz]

if not preconditioned - 45 kw

but precondition happens at 7 kw speed - for like 10 minutes. it makes more or less very little difference.

with precondition your consumption is 100 w higher per mile..

 

[yessuz]

Skip Cardiff (8x 250kW) & just go for Newport (12x 250kW). Almost no chance of having to wait there even though this SC is open to all, as there are loads of other chargers. It's not brilliantly signposted though, being in the grounds of Celtic Manor hotel, but away from the hotel. Basically, from the main road, follow the pin on the Nav, & turn uphill every junction until you see the bank of SCs.
It's a 5 min walk through the grounds to the hotel if you need a loo break, and there is NOTHING at the SCs themselves. Cardiff is no better, as it's a service centre on an industrial park, with nothing nearby. Unless they've updated recently (like Nottingham) & put in a customer centre (seating, wifi, loos, etc - 24 hr) it's not worth the diversion off the M4.

Nottingham has been updated?!

been there half a year last time.. loos.. well a loo.. nothing fancy

 

[Mike_M3]

Just to update on this. Did my first charge away from home today in Bristol Cribbs causeway SC. My journey there was more efficient than I originally planned (130 miles used only 49% battery of my M3 highland RWD) so didn’t actually want a super fast charge as wouldn’t be enough time for kids to have a break out of the car. Didn’t precondition the battery and got a speed of c75kwh when I first plugged in. This slowed down to c50kwh at around 90%. Charged to 97% from 51% in about 20-25mins. The SC network makes the whole process easy and stress free, overall very happy!

 

[Adopado]

Didn’t precondition the battery and got a speed of c75kwh when I first plugged in. This slowed down to c50kwh at around 90%.

kW for rate of charging. kWh is for quantity added.

 

[rbskaa]

My MY RWD begun preconditioning the battery for a supercharger stop while I was still in Glasgow heading to Fort William. Took 2 hours with no traffic but I thought it was pretty early.