Citizen-T
Active Member
I have grown to resent gas stations over the past year or two. It actually pains me to have to stop at one.
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i know exactly how you feel. I've been driving down to below the E lately just because with my S getting so close, i'm more and more resenting going to the gas station.
oh, and as to the original question - i'm about 10,000 miles per year on average with my car, but we've generally used my wife's car to do roadtrips, so as the supercharger network gets built out, i expect to transition even more of our driving to electric as her car will ONLY be for her commute to work, or other times when we've got to take the 2 kids in 2 different directions at the same time
I have saved ~1025 gallons in 16 months since I switched from my Honda S2000 to my LEAF. There is about 600 more gallons a year an S can get rid of replacing my wife's Murano.
I can definitely say I do no miss gas stations stops. At this point I have kind of forgotten about the experience. I am reminded when I speak someone and they ask "How much is gas in Houston right now?", I honestly answer "I have no idea."
My other favorite question is when people ask "Oh you have an electric car, how many miles per gallon do you get?".
I can definitely say I do no miss gas stations stops. At this point I have kind of forgotten about the experience. I am reminded when I speak someone and they ask "How much is gas in Houston right now?", I honestly answer "I have no idea."
My other favorite question is when people ask "Oh you have an electric car, how many miles per gallon do you get?".
I put 10 gallons of gas in my Prius about every 3 weeks. So, I would only save about 170 gallons a year.
I am not buying the car for the amount of gas that is saved. Even if I used 1,000 gallons of gas a year, buying the model S solely for that reason does not make economic sense. Say gas costs $5.00/gallon and you use 1000 gallons a year. That translates into $5,000/year for gas. Spending anywhere from $60,000 to $100,000 for the car only to save on gas will have an extremely long payback period. There are numerous reasons for buying a car (any car). Fuel savings is only a part of it (a very, very small part in my case).
I am not buying the car for the amount of gas that is saved. Even if I used 1,000 gallons of gas a year, buying the model S solely for that reason does not make economic sense. Say gas costs $5.00/gallon and you use 1000 gallons a year. That translates into $5,000/year for gas. Spending anywhere from $60,000 to $100,000 for the car only to save on gas will have an extremely long payback period. There are numerous reasons for buying a car (any car). Fuel savings is only a part of it (a very, very small part in my case).
And I think most all of us agree with you on the financial aspects of gas not penciling out (entirely), and there have been other threads talking about all the other great reasons for buying this car.
But for me, this Model S journey has been eye opening. Now in my commute I start to think about the 3+ gallons My car sucks up each day going to work. Where the gas comes from, how it gets refined, how it gets to the station, how I wait in line for 5 to 10 minutes while watching the fuel tanker dumping the gas in at the same time. Not to mention the burning aspect of this. And how many of us, everywhere, every minute are all doing the same thing.
Just sucking up that many gallons per day... I used to never give it a second thought, at all. Just cared about a car with "decent" gas mileage, that was all.
Currently I'd have to answer 0 gallons! I left my car in Jersey when I moved to Portland and have been making due without it. I've been walking far more and taking public transit on the rare occasion I need to leave the city. It's not only a healthy lifestyle, but one that has very little environmental impact. More than 4 months without a car and not missing it one bit!
dmetcalf
S258
A little over 40 gallons my first week with the S (~1000 miles). Saved $129 after electric costs factored in.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
The current member magazine of the ADAC (German AAA) shows an interesting comparison chart:
Model | Usage per 100km | Cost per 100km | CO2 emissions (power station, raffinery) | CO2 emissions car | CO2 emissions total (all gramm per km)
Gasoline car
Mazda 3.1.6 Edition | 6.3 liter Premium unleaded | 10.40 Euro | 28.4g | 143.2g | 171.6g
Diesel car
Hyundai i30 1.6 CRDi | 4.5 liter Diesel | 6.75 Euro | 25.6g | 118.5g | 144.1g
EV (German standard electricity mix)
Volvo C30 electric | 28.3 kWh | 7.36 Euro | 159.4g | 0g | 159.4g
EV (pure regenerative electricity)
Volvo C30 electric | 28.3 kWh | 8.49 Euro | 5.7g | 0g | 5.7g
Goes to show that the Diesel is the best solution both financially and eco-wise, at least if people refuel by using our current energy mix (which the vast majority do - even if they have solar panels installed, they sell that electricity and buy standard electricity for their home use, as the state-guaranteed selling-price for home-produced regenerative energy is quite a bit higher than the price you have to pay for standard electricity).
Only if you use completely regenerative electricity is the EV the best (not financially mind you, as - at least here - regenerative electricity is even more expensive than "standard" electricity.
I don't know the comparable energy usage per 100km for the Model S though. Might be better, might be worse. We will see.
Model | Usage per 100km | Cost per 100km | CO2 emissions (power station, raffinery) | CO2 emissions car | CO2 emissions total (all gramm per km)
Gasoline car
Mazda 3.1.6 Edition | 6.3 liter Premium unleaded | 10.40 Euro | 28.4g | 143.2g | 171.6g
Diesel car
Hyundai i30 1.6 CRDi | 4.5 liter Diesel | 6.75 Euro | 25.6g | 118.5g | 144.1g
EV (German standard electricity mix)
Volvo C30 electric | 28.3 kWh | 7.36 Euro | 159.4g | 0g | 159.4g
EV (pure regenerative electricity)
Volvo C30 electric | 28.3 kWh | 8.49 Euro | 5.7g | 0g | 5.7g
Goes to show that the Diesel is the best solution both financially and eco-wise, at least if people refuel by using our current energy mix (which the vast majority do - even if they have solar panels installed, they sell that electricity and buy standard electricity for their home use, as the state-guaranteed selling-price for home-produced regenerative energy is quite a bit higher than the price you have to pay for standard electricity).
Only if you use completely regenerative electricity is the EV the best (not financially mind you, as - at least here - regenerative electricity is even more expensive than "standard" electricity.
I don't know the comparable energy usage per 100km for the Model S though. Might be better, might be worse. We will see.
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Model S is rated 38kWh / 100 miles by the EPA. Check their web site: www.fueleconomy.gov
This is electricity taken from the wall, IOW it includes charging losses.
Converted to SI gives 23kWh / 100km. Let me rehash your table:
==> you can't beat an efficient EV, though diesel is close.
This is electricity taken from the wall, IOW it includes charging losses.
Converted to SI gives 23kWh / 100km. Let me rehash your table:
| Model | consumption per 100km | Cost per 100km | CO2 emissions (power station, refinery) | CO2 emissions car | CO2 emissions total (all in g/km) |
| Gasoline car Mazda 3.1.6 Edition | 6.3 liter Premium unleaded | 10.40 Euro | 28.4g | 143.2g | 171.6g |
| Diesel car Hyundai i30 1.6 CRDi | 4.5 liter Diesel | 6.75 Euro | 25.6g | 118.5g | 144.1 |
| EV (German standard electricity mix) Volvo C30 electric Model S P85 | 28.3 kWh 23.7 kWh | 7.36 Euro 6.16 Euro | 159.4g 133.5g | 0g 0g | 159.4g 133.5g |
| EV (pure regenerative electricity) Volvo C30 electric Model S P85 | 28.3 kWh 23.7 kWh | 8.49 Euro 7.11 Euro | 5.7g 4.8g | 0g 0g | 5.7g 4.8g |
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Not with the filters that are now mandatory on every diesel car they don't.
As a matter of fact, new gasoline cars emit more particles than new diesel cars.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Depends on the filter.
But it's true that only BEV's are completely emission-free (locally). So eco-wise they win the contest.
As long as you ignore the environmental impact from the mining of rare earth minerals used in the batteries, and the disposal of those batteries at the end of life. But at least as has been mentioned before, the electricity generated for recharging the batteries can potentially be emission free through solar power.
Zzzz...
Member
There are no rare earth minerals used in Tesla Motors batteries or motors. And batteries are recyclable. In fact the biggest recycling rate of any item currently held by lead acid automotive batteries, over 99% of them recycled in developed countries. I do think it would continue to be the case with EV packs.
A good piece on battery raw materials: EV Myths And Realities, Part 1: The Battery Crisis - Seeking Alpha
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
Back to the original question... 1,040 gallons/year or $4,472/year at current local prices. That's $22,360/5 years + $1,400 in oil changes = $23,760
kevincwelch
Active Member
I'll save $1750 each year in gas prices. But, this is what I am looking forward to not having to deal with:
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Yeah, it's hard to believe what people put up with on a regular basis. Some people complain that even Superchargers are too slow; people will never wait 30 minutes for a refill.
What if they only have to do that waiting on their one road trip each year? What if the fuel is free? Watching people wait in line at Costco to save a few cents on gas leads me to believe this model can work. (And if it doesn't, sheesh, take another car).
I find it funny how many people that don't own EVs complain about their lack of convenience. They are so much more convenient than gas cars.
Although, back on topic, our new Model S isn't saving us any gas because my wife and I already both drove electric. But now we have a single car that has both range and room for passengers and cargo, so some aspects of life will be easier. Plus, if/when the faster charging that Tesla promised for the Model S materializes where I can use it, I can probably convince my wife to take a long trip in the car rather than flying. So the Model S may well keep us from burning a lot of jet fuel.
What if they only have to do that waiting on their one road trip each year? What if the fuel is free? Watching people wait in line at Costco to save a few cents on gas leads me to believe this model can work. (And if it doesn't, sheesh, take another car).
I find it funny how many people that don't own EVs complain about their lack of convenience. They are so much more convenient than gas cars.
Although, back on topic, our new Model S isn't saving us any gas because my wife and I already both drove electric. But now we have a single car that has both range and room for passengers and cargo, so some aspects of life will be easier. Plus, if/when the faster charging that Tesla promised for the Model S materializes where I can use it, I can probably convince my wife to take a long trip in the car rather than flying. So the Model S may well keep us from burning a lot of jet fuel.
