Has anyone in SoCal had Edison install a second electric meter for a lower tier bill?

[steph280]

Ok I incorrectly signed up for Jukebox. Guess now I have to start over with a WattBox.

Any recommendation for an electrician who can install this in SoCal/Orange County area?

 

[emotorwerks]

Ok I incorrectly signed up for Jukebox. Guess now I have to start over with a WattBox.

Any recommendation for an electrician who can install this in SoCal/Orange County area?

You might want to contact Cosmin, our LA area installation coordinator. He can be reached through email at cosmin10 AT gmail.com or over the phone at 408-639-8268. Please don't mind the area code, this is a forwarding number. He works with several crews in OC and LA metro. The feedback we have heard so far has been very good. Cosmin can expense WattBox and JuiceBox installations to eMotorWerks directly.

 

[Ampster]

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I have the SCE TOU D-A my super off peek is .11cents with the WattBox this drops to 5 cents. it's an easy Justification for the $50.00 cost of the WattBOX. I was holding out for the JuiceBox model that is an integrated EVSE but it didn't make UL Certification in time to qualify.

If you had looked at a separate meter plan but determined it wasn't cost effective I urge to to check into the Pilot program before it closes at the end of the month.

Show me where the rate drops to 5 cents. There are two threads going about this issue and no one yet has found a place on SCE website that shows that rate. It may be true for the other IOUs but apparently not SCE. If you find that your original post was incorrect it would be nice if you would make a note on that post of the correct amount. I believe like some others that the correct rate is $0.11 which is the same as some SCE TOU Super Off Peak rates.

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Does the 14-50 outlet need to be on a separate meter from rest of the house, or will SCE know to deduct its usage and put it on a separate bill with EV rates?

the operative word is SUB which is NOT "on a separate meter from the rest of the house" the sub meter usage has to be deducted from the house.

 

[Ampster]

Unless i i am missing something here is the link from SCE website showing the EV dedicated meter rate. The submeter pilot uses this rate plan

this rate was filed 5/30/2015 effective 6/1/2015

https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce114-12.pdf

YES, you are missing something, the generation charges. The $0.5 is the sum of all the delivery charges. To get the total rate you need to add the generation and deliveery charges. The $0.05 erroneously quoted on several threads is only the delivery component. It is an easy mistake to make because tariff schedule are difficult to read.

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[emotorwerks]

YES, you are missing something, the generation charges. The $0.5 is the sum of all the delivery charges. To get the total rate you need to add the generation and deliveery charges. The $0.05 erroneously quoted on several threads is only the delivery component. It is an easy mistake to make because tariff schedule are difficult to read.

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Dr. Manny has shared his Edison bill with pilot charger on TOU-EV-1 on the RAV4 EV forum. Michael has shared an excerpt from his post upthread. I hope this answers your question regarding the off-peak tariff.

Details of your new charges
Your rate: TOU-EV-1
Billing period: Jun 2 '15 to Jul 1 '15 (29 days)

Delivery charges
Energy-Summer
Off peak 366 kWh x $0.04868 =
$17.82
DWR bond charge 366 kWh x $0.00526
$1.93
Monthly Meter charge
$2.64
Service Connection charge
$6.00

Generation charges
DWR
DWR energy credit 366 kWh x -$0.00172
-$0.63
SCE
Energy-Summer
Off peak 366 kWh x $0.06651
$24.34

Subtotal of your new charges
$52.10
Santa Ana UUT $46.10 x 5.50000%
$2.54
State tax 366 kWh x $0.00029
$0.11
Your new charges
$54.75

Your Delivery charges include:
· $4.49 transmission charges
· $9.46 distribution charges
· $0.10 nuclear decommissioning charges
· $2.71 public purpose programs charge
· $3.61 new system generation charge

Your Generation charges include:
· -$0.71 competition transition charge

Your overall energy charges include:
· $0.42 franchise fees

Additional information:
· Service voltage: 208 volts

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Here is a link to the relevant thread on the RAV4 EV forum:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewt...id=564eea57ada9eefb9feff9ecb095ef75&start=140

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YES, you are missing something, the generation charges. The $0.5 is the sum of all the delivery charges. To get the total rate you need to add the generation and deliveery charges. The $0.05 erroneously quoted on several threads is only the delivery component. It is an easy mistake to make because tariff schedule are difficult to read.

I believe that you might be misreading the tariff. At this point, it would be best to simply give Edison a call and ask what charges would be applicable on TOU-EV-1 in your particular case.

Generation = The Gen rates are applicable only to Bundled Service Customers.

 

[Ampster]

Not likely. I agree the tariffs are hard to understand. However that doesn't explain the SCE bill posted above. Furthermore more, you or anyone from emotorwerks could easily explain the correct rate as an explicit number rather than allowing this ambiguity to persist.
Would you care to explicitly state what the SCE TOU-EV-1 rate is for the benefit of this forum and it's readers? Generation charges appear to be on the bill linked above.
Oh, but wait a minute, what would your motivation be to do that, if the truth might mean less people buy your product?
Broker Don makes a good point about more flexible hours. That is a good reason why someone might find this the same 11 cent rate attractive. There is no ambiguity in that preference.

 

[ddimit]

Not likely. I agree the tariffs are hard to understand. However that doesn't explain the SCE bill posted above. Furthermore more, you or anyone from emotorwerks could easily explain the correct rate as an explicit number rather than allowing this ambiguity to persist.
Would you care to explicitly state what the SCE TOU-EV-1 rate is for the benefit of this forum and it's readers? Generation charges appear to be on the bill linked above.
Oh, but wait a minute, what would your motivation be to do that, if the truth might mean less people buy your product?
Broker Don makes a good point about more flexible hours. That is a good reason why someone might find this the same 11 cent rate attractive. There is no ambiguity in that preference.

it appears from all the discussion that i posted incomplete info and by not adding in the generation charges.:crying::crying:

The EV off peak appears to be .11 from 9pm until 12PM
TOU-D Super off peak starts 1 hour later at 10pm and ends at 8AM

EV On Peak is .22 from 12pm until 9pm
TOU-D OFF peak is from .26/.30 (depending on season) 8AM until 2pm and from 8pm until 10PM.
TOU ON Peak is .36/.46(depending on season) 2pm until 8pm

None of this takes into account Solar or baseline credit allowance Which I need clarification from SCE on.

I don't think Emotoworeks is trying to scam people into buying the box.

If you look at PG&E rates for EV-B (second meter) they are far more onerous and make no sense as the include huge peak rates

So, it may vary it depends on when you charge and if you need to charge during the the day or longer hours.

In summery, you get to charge super off peak rates 1 hour earlier and go 4 hours later, and the there is no on peak rate

 

[Ampster]

I was a little over critical in my comments. I decided to stick with the WattBox for the flexibility to charge up until Noon.

 

[emotorwerks]

I was a little over critical in my comments. I decided to stick with the WattBox for the flexibility to charge up until Noon.

Thank you for moving forward with this program, Ampster! We just heard from Edison the other day, and they have tentatively accepted your application for enrollment. We will hopefully have the final confirmation soon.

It's not too late to get into the program, but you would have to act today.

Please fill out the sign-up form below and create an OhmConnect account. Then email Kris or Dorian asking if you could place a pilot WattBox order today. The email address is their first name @emotorwerks.com. We would need to these steps completed so that OhmConnect can generate an enrollment form. This form will need to be signed and deposited with your utility on Monday. This is the last day they will be accepting applications.

Sign-up form (will create a CRM record):
Electric Motor Werks, Inc. - Electric Motor Werks, Inc.

OhmConnect account (needed to generate the CEA):
ohmconnect

For those who have signed up and are waiting to get enrolled with their utility: please make sure that you have signed and returned the enrollment agreement. OhmConnect has re-sent this PDF form to everyone a few days ago. The subject of that email should read "Please Review PEV Agreement".

This form must be executed and deposited with the utility by Monday. Thank you for your cooperation!

 

[NorCalSJ]

emotorwerks, would it be possible for you to take a few pictures of your JuiceBox set up for us to see??

 

[emotorwerks]

emotorwerks, would it be possible for you to take a few pictures of your JuiceBox set up for us to see??

Here is one of our customer installs, NorCalSJ. I will try to upload more. To be clear, this showcases the WattBox, our smart energy monitor, which permits participation in the submetering pilot.

 

[Ampster]

I just got my first bill under the pilot program. I am a Net Energy Metering customer and assumed that the usage would be offset against my overgeneration. Apparently that is not the case. Therefore I cancelled my Sub meter account. I have $584 in credits on my NEM account and cannot use that to offset the bill for the submeter. The first bill cost me $30 and I have another $20 accumulated. My cancellation is effective tomorrow.

Fundementally this program is not good for a NEM customer who runs a net cummulative credit on their NEM bill.

 

[miimura]

I just got my first bill under the pilot program. I am a Net Energy Metering customer and assumed that the usage would be offset against my overgeneration. Apparently that is not the case. Therefore I cancelled my Sub meter account. I have $584 in credits on my NEM account and cannot use that to offset the bill for the submeter. The first bill cost me $30 and I have another $20 accumulated. My cancellation is effective tomorrow.

Fundementally this program is not good for a NEM customer who runs a net cummulative credit on their NEM bill.

I tried to tell people this before the pilot started, but some solar over-producers were insistent on going ahead anyway. The more interesting thing would be to try to tack on another utility program, NEM Aggregation, to push some of your generation to the sub-meter account. I don't really expect that they would let you do that with a sub-meter, but it would be worth a shot if Edison has that program. As an aside, if NEM Aggregation or Virtual Net Metering existed at the time, I would have built my house with a second meter socket and a garage sub-panel. At the time, there was no way for a Solar NEM to put credit toward an EV meter. I'm pretty sure that is possible today with PG&E.

 

[Ampster]

You have always had wise and helpful comment and I wish I had paid better attention.
FWIW, I do have NEM Aggregation on an apartment project I own. I took six months to get approved even though I already had a NEM agreement on one of the meters. I aggregated that meter with some house meters that primarily ran lights at night. The house meters are on GS-1 rate that has a fixed charge per meter. After approval it took SCE another 3 months to prepare a bill, then another 10 days to adjust it and produce the spreadsheet that does the aggregation

 

[neptune2000]

I tried to tell people this before the pilot started, but some solar over-producers were insistent on going ahead anyway. The more interesting thing would be to try to tack on another utility program, NEM Aggregation, to push some of your generation to the sub-meter account. I don't really expect that they would let you do that with a sub-meter, but it would be worth a shot if Edison has that program. As an aside, if NEM Aggregation or Virtual Net Metering existed at the time, I would have built my house with a second meter socket and a garage sub-panel. At the time, there was no way for a Solar NEM to put credit toward an EV meter. I'm pretty sure that is possible today with PG&E.

How about a Net Metering solar customer that runs a bill of about $300 / year? SCE is starting the EV Submetering Phase 2 Pilot with enrollment beginning on November 1, 2016.
Does it make sense to sign up for it for a Net Metering customer?

 

[miimura]

How about a Net Metering solar customer that runs a bill of about $300 / year? SCE is starting the EV Submetering Phase 2 Pilot with enrollment beginning on November 1, 2016.
Does it make sense to sign up for it for a Net Metering customer?

NEM Aggregation was formally put into the PG&E NEM Tariff. I did not re-read it with the Sub-Meter case in mind to check for any applicable language. Basically, the consideration for you is how much you expect to be billed on the EV meter throughout the year. If it's more than your current true-up amount, you would need some way of putting the solar production toward the EV meter (Aggregation). Otherwise, you would end up paying more for the EV meter charges and then you would have a negative billing amount on the main meter which would be discarded or reimbursed at a very low rate for excess production, both of which are worse outcomes than the single meter case.