Happy Birthday to me... it's a P90D

[Andyw2100]

I'm also trying to arrange for various high speed tests in a place where lots of video can be taken and I can push limits more. A few tests I want to try

0-155
0-120
30-90
30-120
60-90
60-120
90-120

All you have posted has definitely been appreciated.

You certainly know your own limits, what's safe, etc.

That being said, I hope I can safely speak for others when I say we really don't have a heck of a lot of need for the 0-155, and I don't care where you'd be doing it, or how experienced a driver you are at high speed, but that one worries me!

Best of luck! And be careful!

 

[CleanPower]

@Cleanpower: great graph, but can it be modified to show time? How much longer does a 90kw battery take to charge than an 85kw? Does a typical 30 minute charge go to 50 minutes?

It looks like the 90D is charging at an average of 6 kW lower charging rate than the 85D assuming you charge for 30 minutes starting at about 20% State of Charge.
This would be from 10 minutes to 40 minutes on the graph above.

That means that the 90D will add 3kWh less during that 30 minute charging session. This works out to about 9.5 miles less range added during those 30 minutes - assuming 315 wh/mile. Another way of looking at it would be that the 90D will have to charge for 34 minutes to get the same charge the 85D gets in 30 minutes.

Let me know if that answers your question.

 

[kushari]

Today is my 33rd birthday, and Tesla was kind enough to deliver my beautiful car to me at 11am this morning. Weighing in at 4647 lb and 4 oz, she is healthy, but has yet to be named.

P90D, midnight silver, pano, 21" grey turbines, black next-gen seats, CF décor and spoiler, black alcantara headliner, red calipers, autopilot, SAS, UHFS, and premium interior

View attachment 91570

Horrible lighting. Didn't realize it until I looked at it on my laptop.

View attachment 91571


I've seen some questions about what the range will be. This was a range charge that I let sit to balance batteries. 273 miles
View attachment 91572


I've spent some time driving a P85D and when I first launched in this I was a bit disappointed. It didn't feel any more significant than insane mode. I did notice some additional pull, but nothing mind blowing. I haven't had a chance to really play around with it yet, but I did find this
View attachment 91574
View attachment 91573
View attachment 91575


When the battery is ready it will say "Ready", which when I first found it was ready immediately. The "Preparing..." was when I was charging again tonight so the battery needs to warm up a bit first. My initial test with this enabled I did feel it more, but it wasn't the best test with luggage and people in the car. I'll test it and try to get a video of at least the dash during day time.

Congrats man! You are awesome for joining the rEVolution. I plan on getting the P90D or whatever the high end model is in a year or two. Right now My 70D is great and affordable haha.

The real congrats is being your age and being able to afford a Tesla!

I was able to afford mine (finance) with the help of my father for the down payment. I'm 28. Hopfully getting the top of the line model in a year or two

 

[sorka]

It looks like the 90D is charging at an average of 6 kW lower charging rate than the 85D assuming you charge for 30 minutes starting at about 20% State of Charge.
This would be from 10 minutes to 40 minutes on the graph above.

That means that the 90D will add 3kWh less during that 30 minute charging session. This works out to about 9.5 miles less range added during those 30 minutes - assuming 315 wh/mile. Another way of looking at it would be that the 90D will have to charge for 34 minutes to get the same charge the 85D gets in 30 minutes.

Let me know if that answers your question.

Tesla might be being cautious until they collect more data. From my hobby experience one of the tradeoffs of buying higher capacity 16850 cells is that higher capacity batteries that contain some silicon have a lower maximum discharge rate. This is the tradeoff. If this is indeed a factor perhaps they're trying to mitigate degradation by having a slightly slower charge rate.

It's also possible that they've solved this and the new Sanyo cells don't have any of these limitations. If so that would be significant breakthrough.

 

[pbceng]

Hi All,

just an observation - the P90D pack looks to have slightly higher impedance than the pack in the 85 in Kman's video which will reduce the charge rate and the efficiency of charge, however this could be down to several factors such as ambient temperature and age of the pack. I'm not a Li-Ion expert, but a brand new pack will probably take a few charge/discharge cycles to reach optimal performance. Kman's loaner would have seen a lot more use (abuse?) than the brand new pack.

 

[sorka]

Hi All,

just an observation - the P90D pack looks to have slightly higher impedance than the pack in the 85 in Kman's video which will reduce the charge rate and the efficiency of charge, however this could be down to several factors such as ambient temperature and age of the pack. I'm not a Li-Ion expert, but a brand new pack will probably take a few charge/discharge cycles to reach optimal performance. Kman's loaner would have seen a lot more use (abuse?) than the brand new pack.

Does cell impedance normally decrease with age even in the very beginning? My 85 has the same charge curve as it had when it was new.

 

[pdq]

I ordered a P90D last month as a B-Day present, but 65, not 33. Unlike the post above, mine is not going to have staggered width tires, perhaps because I ordered it with the 19" wheels, not the 21s.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

Hi All,

just an observation - the P90D pack looks to have slightly higher impedance than the pack in the 85 in Kman's video which will reduce the charge rate and the efficiency of charge, however this could be down to several factors such as ambient temperature and age of the pack. I'm not a Li-Ion expert, but a brand new pack will probably take a few charge/discharge cycles to reach optimal performance. Kman's loaner would have seen a lot more use (abuse?) than the brand new pack.

I don't think we have the data to conclude this, variance is well below the noise floor wrt existing observed tapers

 

[okashira]

What is your recommendation for getting the car to the right temp and having a full charge? Drive hard for a while in warm weather, SC, drive hard for a bit, but try to keep >95% SOC?

Use the car's built in heating at the supercharger?

Barring that, they are heated by I^2*R during use. Peak I is 20 amps per cell at peak power.
So do acceleration runs from 30mph to 80mph (or whatever the range is the car pulls peak power) and regen brake at peak back down. Go between 30 and 80 a couple times then hit the supercharger.
Don't brake use regen for slowing 75 to 30. That will add some heat too and less range lost.

 

[pbceng]

I don't think we have the data to conclude this, variance is well below the noise floor wrt existing observed tapers

Agreed, single samples are never a good starting point, but then neither is comparing a well used battery with a new one - certainly in my (admittedly limited) experience of battery characterisation.

 

[Pete90D]

I started writing some code last night to make use of the API for capturing more data to share with everyone. Things are busy so I'm not sure what the timeline will be for that.

I have noticed there are several options listed for my car that aren't in the price book and either there are some new entries in responses for certain cars or they are unlisted in the unofficial documentation.

 

[apacheguy]

Does cell impedance normally decrease with age even in the very beginning? My 85 has the same charge curve as it had when it was new.

Cell impedance inceases with age, but almost imperceptiably so until you start getting to 1,000 cycles or some such. My understanding at least.

 

[Rafik]

I started writing some code last night to make use of the API for capturing more data to share with everyone. Things are busy so I'm not sure what the timeline will be for that.

I have noticed there are several options listed for my car that aren't in the price book and either there are some new entries in responses for certain cars or they are unlisted in the unofficial documentation.

Can you provide some examples?

 

[Pete90D]

Can you provide some examples?

These were missing from the older pricebook I found
Unknown: BP01
Unknown: BR01
Unknown: COUS
Unknown: DA02
Unknown: DCF0
Unknown: MS04
Unknown: PMNG
Unknown: PX4D
Unknown: RENA
Unknown: RFP2
Unknown: TP03

Downloading the latest pricebook from the Tesla site these are now not found
Unknown: PI01
Unknown: QNEB
Unknown: X040


I emailed the API stuff to Tim since he would know more if they are new options or ones just left out of his documentation. I know some things like 'odometer' are well known, but not in his documentation

 

[MuppetOwl]

Did you find the sticker on the battery that show part number?

Want to check if the battery is shown in the part catalog.

 

[Pete90D]

Did you find the sticker on the battery that show part number?

Want to check if the battery is shown in the part catalog.

Ugh! I forgot to look while I was just out. I'll take a picture when I go out later.

I did take this photo though. I don't know that it shows much, but it's more information.

- - - Updated - - -

Did you find the sticker on the battery that show part number?

Want to check if the battery is shown in the part catalog.

1063792-00-A

 

[tom66]

And out of interest, does it specify 90kWh on the pack sticker, or something like 85kWh+ or expanded?
I wonder if Tesla will begin shipping all 85kWh cars with downrated 90kWh packs, perhaps with a software tweak. Might even make sense from a reliability/warranty perspective if the cost of the silicon li-ion cells is low enough.

 

[Pete90D]

And out of interest, does it specify 90kWh on the pack sticker, or something like 85kWh+ or expanded?
I wonder if Tesla will begin shipping all 85kWh packs with downrated 90kWh packs, perhaps with a software tweak. Might even make sense from a reliability/warranty perspective if the cost of the silicon li-ion cells is low enough.

Not sure. Part of the sticker was under the cover and at the time it wasn't convenient to change that.

They did do that with the S40. It was more cost effective to just produce the 60kWh pack and limit it via software so I wouldn't be surprised if 85s came with the same part.

 

[Khatsalano]

You know what would have been awesome instead of Ludicrous speed, is Ludicrous range. For a $10,000 upgrade I am certain we could have gotten a 100kWh pack in there easily. Maybe even more (but with diminishing returns for weight). I think there are some customers (like me!) would would be happy with 4.0 sec performance but 320 miles of rated range.

- K

 

[apacheguy]

@Khatsalano - The battery enclosure is space constrained. In order to add capacity you either have increase energy density or add cells. The latter is not an option and I don't know if there are better cells available in terms of energy density for automotive applications.