Guess A Tesla isn't in the cards for me, this time around

[Kbsilver]

While I don't question your particular motivation, I would also say that almost nobody would admit (or realize) that image/status is a major reason they want a BMW/Mercedes, etc., and yet it must be the case, I suggest, for a large percentage.

My personal take, not that anyone cares, is that the high-end euro sedans are just not desirable because they're not mechanically reliable. They may be in your particular case but from general reading you learn the trend. I'd go Lexus/Acura if I had to. However now with the advent of Tesla, all of that stuff is swept away in an instant and seriously is now very boring to me.

While this thread is off the original topic, as a car enthusiast, I am up to a good discussion. Status had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to originally get involved with BMW's 15 years ago. If anything, typically I would make the opposite choice if it involved status. I purchased a car that was great handling and fun to drive. My first one had a whopping 193 HP and was factory ordered to get a 5-speed manual transmission. Does that sound like status?

I suppose reliability can be very random. Purchased a CPO Acura 2003 TSX 6-speed for our son. Worst car we EVER owned, including Ford. Quart of oil every 900 miles, starter, random electrical issues, catalytic converter, ABS pump and the clutch went at 130K miles. Last Honda product we own. Unloaded it and now my son is driving that first BMW, a car 3 years OLDER than the Acura. At 200K miles the car has never been towed, doesn't burn a drop of oil and is still running on the original clutch!

We have had owned total of 4 BMW's (sold one as daughter move Manhattan and needed no car at all). Except for the trans in our 540iT which was repaired, all were extremely reliable. The 3 we still have are at 200K miles, 155K miles and the newest at 60K miles. They are all still fun to drive. Thus I do not understand why all this talk about how terrible BMWs are.

Now I will admit as I already said I do think BMW has lost their way doing any to increse sales at the demise to the enthusiast. I suspect engines will not last as long as the older models, and our 2011 is one of the last models with hydraulic power steering which gave the signature BMW feel. And getting a new BMW as I may likely do, is really just a newer version of what I am already driving. It will not be the different and exciting experience that a Tesla will give. But with a Tesla (we can afford one but like many others is a stretch) if something does go wrong (which will happen at some point, even it just running out of charge on the road), I would be in the dog house because I spent so much on 'that' car plus having to hear the 'I told you so'. So another BMW is my safe choice.

And for Swedish- Being right in a marrage means nothing.

 

[Duckjybe]

BMW's are great cars in my mind. And it is the safe choice - you are right. This is precisely why it will take a long time for the majority of people to switch to electric. Having said that, I sold a BMW 330xi manual (which I loved) to buy a Volt (which I loved to drive more) and then ultimately the Model S (which I love to drive even more). I have never looked back. I never thought I would spend so much money on a car with the S but I drive a lot and save a lot on gas and it has been worth every penny. I just went to the car show and sat in all the cars. The interiors all look nice but so antiquated now with the built up consoles on the centre tunnel and I can't stand all those buttons.

 

[bluenation]

OP:

your story is not at all uncommon. as usual, it's the hubby who is the pro-early adopter, financially "adventurous", and the wifey who is fiscally conservative, technological skeptic, car enthusiasm-apathetic. this is normal and usual.

it boils down to this:

- is the tesla payments gonna be 30% of your annual gross revenue or less?
- can you home charge?
- do your common long distance routes fall along supercharger routes?

if your answers are yes to all, then you have the answer.

that said, bimmers have never looked better, and are more amazing than ever. germany is still the king of sporty lux cars.

 

[adiggs]

An idea that I got from elsewhere, but I like so much that I repeat it when I talk with people in a situation somewhat like yours...

Are you a 2+ vehicle family, or a single vehicle? For a single vehicle family, clearly the 1 car you own must do everything that you're looking for in a vehicle, and if both of you aren't ready to make the Model S your only vehicle, then you're spot on. I suggest keeping an eye on electric cars, and maybe in 2-5 years you'll be ready to make the shift.

But if you're a 2+ car family, then you only need the Model S to have the ability to handle the workload of your least used car in the garage. You can enter into the experiment with the mindset that you use the Model S for whatever it can easily and readily do (with the presumption that 1 of the cars will have an easier loop of errands to do each day). You then keep an appropriate second car that can handle the long errand days and the drives to odd places where the charging infrastructure isn't as robust, or really any situation where you as a family are going to be uncomfortable with being dependent on electrons instead of gas.

Call that the hybrid garage rather than a hybrid car. And it gets you started being electric and getting personal experience with starting each day with a full tank, and experience with how the personal transportation paradigm shifts. Actually, the hybrid garage idea is a way to save some pretty significant coin too - if one of your two cars consistently stays under 50ish miles per day, then you could make your electric car a Leaf or some such, getting the benefit of shifting some of your miles over to electrons in a cost effective way (I here there are some amazing lease deals on Leafs).

Just another way to think about the problem.


For me, my ah-hah moment was about 2 and a half years ago. I realized 1 day that I actually could afford to drive one of these things. From the realization that I could afford it, it took me weeks to go from "can afford to drive" to "morally compelled" to make the change. Adding an electric car (previously we were a 1 car garage) has enabled me and my wife to get a firm grasp on the bottom run of energy independence (which I define as getting the bulk of our transportation from electricity, and solar panels that out generate our annual transportation electricity). We haven't zeroed out our contribution to the carbon problem, and we certainly haven't solved the world carbon problem, but we've done at least 1 significant thing that we have control of, and begun to limit our own contribution to the problem.

And I have no hope of ever making the cost of one of these cars pencil out financially. The previously driven primary car cost us maybe $1500 / year for everything - fuel, insurance, maintenance, tires - to drive maybe 8,000 miles (an old Honda CRX with over 150k miles and still going well).

 

[fadkar]

Heck, both my parents weren't too keen on being early adopters! While my Dad loves technology, he's at the point in life where he doesn't want to go through any hassles. But I knew we had to get the P85D for his next lease... So we went for a test drive and I fell in love with the power (and everything else!), my dad fell in love with the huge touchscreen infotainment system, and my mom loved the smooth and quiet ride. Order placed for a P85D a few days ago:biggrin:

 

[dsm363]

OP:

your story is not at all uncommon. as usual, it's the hubby who is the pro-early adopter, financially "adventurous", and the wifey who is fiscally conservative, technological skeptic, car enthusiasm-apathetic. this is normal and usual.

I should let my parents know. They have a Model S and my mother is the one who made the decision to buy it and my father never drives it.

 

[Kbsilver]

OP:

your story is not at all uncommon. as usual, it's the hubby who is the pro-early adopter, financially "adventurous", and the wifey who is fiscally conservative, technological skeptic, car enthusiasm-apathetic. this is normal and usual.

it boils down to this:

- is the tesla payments gonna be 30% of your annual gross revenue or less?
- can you home charge?
- do your common long distance routes fall along supercharger routes?

if your answers are yes to all, then you have the answer.

that said, bimmers have never looked better, and are more amazing than ever. germany is still the king of sporty lux cars.

As a matter of fact I can say yes to the 3 statements. But it's still the other um "uncontrollables" that make this difficult.

Cheers!

 

[bluenation]

As a matter of fact I can say yes to the 3 statements. But it's still the other um "uncontrollables" that make this difficult.

Cheers!

and i totally understand. TMC community may disagree but you need to be honest with such a huge & important purchase: the S is only 3 years old. And its reliability over those years is on the side of "mixed".

From your posts, i get the feeling its better to wait, or get a temp replacement for a few more years. remember patience is a tremendous & underrated virtue. One ignores it at their own peril

i side with your wife on this one.

 

[Canuck]

Strange no comments here about our children, and their children, and the environment our, and past, generations are leaving them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think one person buying a Tesla will make a difference. In fact, I believe we are on a path that Tesla itself likely won't make a difference. But still, since I have the means, I look at it as my obligation to try to make a difference, especially in the eyes of my children. (Oh, the sacrifice I had to make in buying a Tesla over a BMW! )

 

[dsm363]

I think you'd love it and win your wife over on it but agree, unless she is on board to start any issues that do crop up will make it seem like you bought the wrong car even if they are minor.

 

[bonaire]

Strange no comments here about our children, and their children, and the environment our, and past, generations are leaving them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think one person buying a Tesla will make a difference. In fact, I believe we are on a path that Tesla itself likely won't make a difference. But still, since I have the means, I look at it as my obligation to try to make a difference, especially in the eyes of my children. (Oh, the sacrifice I had to make in buying a Tesla over a BMW! )

One issue here is the North American pair of USA/Canada account for 4.5 percent of world population. There is really not much "we can do" in North America except keep showing how good the technology is and hoping it catches on. In other words - our kids are hardly going to be changed by small changes some of us do in the "EV industry". The real answer to world resource issues is how many people can live a smaller, simpler life and be happy? And with population still growing but expected to top-out at 9 billion - what happens both during the 7-9 billion upswing and then how do we handle the heavily aging population on the downswing. One primary loss during this phase will be the sea fishing industries basically eradicating most fish in the oceans for cultures and populations who demand sea food as a main food staple. And how do we feel 9 billion good quality foods or do they all eat junk and high carbs diets because it is cheaper and easier (and not healthy, leading to shorter lifespans).

 

[bluenation]

Strange no comments here about our children, and their children, and the environment our, and past, generations are leaving them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think one person buying a Tesla will make a difference. In fact, I believe we are on a path that Tesla itself likely won't make a difference. But still, since I have the means, I look at it as my obligation to try to make a difference, especially in the eyes of my children. (Oh, the sacrifice I had to make in buying a Tesla over a BMW! )

you know what's the best way to be environmentalist?

dont have kids.

and

"if you must, adopt."

alas....

 

[ElectricTundra]

Are you a 2+ vehicle family, or a single vehicle? For a single vehicle family, clearly the 1 car you own must do everything that you're looking for in a vehicle, and if both of you aren't ready to make the Model S your only vehicle, then you're spot on. I suggest keeping an eye on electric cars, and maybe in 2-5 years you'll be ready to make the shift.

It's been fascinating watching the changes in our neighborhood the past several years as older folk have moved out and younger families have replaced them. Use to be at least two cars in every garage and often one or two others if they had kids.

Many of the new younger families only have one car and several of these are Leaf's. No range anxiety. They either carpool to work or one or both ride bikes (to work or to the park & ride for the bus). They also ride bikes to the grocery and Target. They'll rent a car if needed for a long trip. These are all professional couples with many having at least a masters. They can afford two cars and nicer than a Leaf but their priorities are different than ours were.

 

[Canuck]

you know what's the best way to be environmentalist?

dont have kids.

and

"if you must, adopt."

alas....

Ha! I'm not that much of an environmentalist! All things have their limits.

Not that there's anything wrong with adoption. I admire people who adopt. I'm just an innately selfish higher primate with a strong biological urge to procreate. As stated by Christopher Hitchens:

“Evolution has meant that our prefrontal lobes are too small, our adrenal glands are too big, and our reproductive organs apparently designed by committee; a recipe which, alone or in combination, is very certain to lead to some unhappiness and disorder.”

 

[ken830]

No way to change OP's (wife's) mind... But I know the Model S is at least 5X more expensive than any car I've ever owned, and it's the best purchase I've ever made (TSLA shares are second)... And my wife didn't even want to try driving it for the first few months. She was forced to do so when she returned to work at the end of her maternity and had to drive our daughter daily. Now she loves the car. And I drive her ICE Accord, and I practically cuss every time I need to stop to buy gas every four days.

OP should just buy the BMW, then give his wife a hard time every single time he has to stop to buy gas, every time he changes his own oil, every time he changes the brake pads, etc.... Then maybe after 15 years and 200K miles of this, she'll let him buy the Tesla Gen 6 in the year 2030.

 

[Kbsilver]

... Then maybe after 15 years and 200K miles of this, she'll let him buy the Tesla Gen 6 in the year 2030.

There lies the problem, can't wait forever, I may be too old to drive (or certainly appreciate) a Tesla in 2030. I do see BEV in our household, eventually. Our large car (already at 155K miles) is due to be replaced soon, our smaller car in about 3 years. The S is the perfect functional replacement for our large car. But if not in the cards this time around, the Gen 3 look like will fit in perfectly for the next cycle. But the plan would be to always have an ICE vehicle in the household.

Owing an ICE is not painful. Our diesel doesn't get filled all that often, usually near 500 miles per tank. PLUS in NJ, there is no self service, we do not pump our own fuel. With a topsider I can change the oil just by opening the hood (BMW conveniently places the oil filter on TOP of the engine) Probably could do it in a suit and not get dirty. And the brakes seem to last a long time too. Probably at least 80K-100K miles.

 

[bluenation]

Ha! I'm not that much of an environmentalist! All things have their limits.

Not that there's anything wrong with adoption. I admire people who adopt. I'm just an innately selfish higher primate with a strong biological urge to procreate. As stated by Christopher Hitchens:

“Evolution has meant that our prefrontal lobes are too small, our adrenal glands are too big, and our reproductive organs apparently designed by committee; a recipe which, alone or in combination, is very certain to lead to some unhappiness and disorder.”

heh not to worry , the urge to have sex and the urge to leave descendants are by no means the only syptoms of our biology, your self description as 'innately selfish higher primate' is also biological! (heck i shoudl know!)

alas, i try to be environmentalist and change my habits. yet at the same time

...can you blame me for wanting fast cars ??

 

[CliffG]

There lies the problem, can't wait forever

Exactly. When you examine your own thoughts and feelings, why would you wait? If there's a reason, and you have reservations, then you should let go. Personally, I couldn't. If you don't actually want the car, don't get it.

I may be too old to drive (or certainly appreciate) a Tesla in 2030. I do see BEV in our household, eventually.

Sounds like you do have reservations. So be it.

... But the plan would be to always have an ICE vehicle in the household.

That's sad, but I do understand it. My feelings are just different than yours, and that's right and proper. Having said that, I haven't been able to shake off the shackles yet - I feel dirty every time I have to drive or fill up the ICE vehicle my wife can't let go of.

Ow[n]ing an ICE is not painful...

For me it was very painful, and got worse over time; the Roadster being just out of reach was maddening. You know the saying: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"? I understand that you don't feel that way. For me, that was also part of the decision.

But it sounded like your main concern is that your wife is against it, and that's a conflict you should not have to deal with - you should not make a purchase like this in that case. For me, once I realized I had to have a Model S, and could find my way clear to paying for it, the only hurdle was making sure my wife was on board before I made my reservation, and she had to come to that position on her own. It actually wasn't that difficult (YMMV). Having both of our (adult) children on board helped some. Replacing her car first probably also relieved the tension.:tongue: She still doesn't trust my MS as much as her Subaru but, well, the Subaru is the only vehicle we have that's failed because the battery failed.

 

[AustinPowers]

Owing an ICE is not painful. Our diesel doesn't get filled all that often, usually near 500 miles per tank. PLUS in NJ, there is no self service, we do not pump our own fuel. With a topsider I can change the oil just by opening the hood (BMW conveniently places the oil filter on TOP of the engine) Probably could do it in a suit and not get dirty. And the brakes seem to last a long time too. Probably at least 80K-100K miles.

+1
I can only second that. Having driven Diesel cars all my life (most of the people I know have Diesel cars as well), I can attest to their being highly reliable, almost impossible to break, very fuel efficient, yet fun to drive. To quote Jeremy Clarkson (ok, he was comparing the electric SLS to the SLS Black Series at the time), I "would have to be soft in the head", to buy a gasoline car (or a BEV at the moment, where they are economically just not feasible, at least over here where you can never match an equivalent Diesel car). I only want a BEV because of the quiet ride and great acceleration, nothing else, even though I know I will have to pay through the nose for the experience.

 

[AustinPowers]

Oh and re:

I can change the oil just by opening the hood (BMW conveniently places the oil filter on TOP of the engine)

Don't they all?? At least over here that practice seems to be more or less standard.