Maybe this is worth it if you have no idea what your doing, but 300 bucks for something that takes 5 minutes looking at your panel to figure it out for someone that knows what they are doing is not worth it.
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Ghetto NEMA 6-20 Charging with two 120v 20a outlets
- Thread starter johnmodely
- Start date
I wired most of the high load add on circuits in my house and specialize in controls. I dont get why everyone is terrified of messing with these cars and electricity. Hell working on anything can be dangerous. Almost lost a finger in a serpentine belt when i was younger and dumber while timing my car. Most blue collar workers are used to assessing risks differently than white I guess.
Im going to run 2 5-15 plugs to a J box, install a 220v 2 pole contactor in the box with the coil connected to the two lines. It cant close without 220v applied first. Wire a 220v led to the supply of the contactor so my wife knows if she finda the correct opposing legs. Then just connect a 6-15 receptacle on a 3rd wire. Maybe $60 total. That way we can charge if we end up at a friends house with no high A in the garage.
I will check out the device you recommend.
Ok. I did see it. Guaranteed its the same as I described. At the end of the day, its just looking for 220v across the 2 legs and ground. I wouldnt pay $230 for it, if youre comfortable with AC controlls.
Id also agree, its a tool you would almost never use. But for $60 and the fun of building something, ill give it a go.
I have one of those hansshow vented seats coming, so i guess that the first project. Another project no tesla guys seem to take on. If i blow up my airbag, yall aint gonna know tho. Haha.
Im going to run 2 5-15 plugs to a J box, install a 220v 2 pole contactor in the box with the coil connected to the two lines. It cant close without 220v applied first. Wire a 220v led to the supply of the contactor so my wife knows if she finda the correct opposing legs. Then just connect a 6-15 receptacle on a 3rd wire. Maybe $60 total. That way we can charge if we end up at a friends house with no high A in the garage.
I will check out the device you recommend.
Ok. I did see it. Guaranteed its the same as I described. At the end of the day, its just looking for 220v across the 2 legs and ground. I wouldnt pay $230 for it, if youre comfortable with AC controlls.
Id also agree, its a tool you would almost never use. But for $60 and the fun of building something, ill give it a go.
I have one of those hansshow vented seats coming, so i guess that the first project. Another project no tesla guys seem to take on. If i blow up my airbag, yall aint gonna know tho. Haha.
Many of us understand the risks. But consider it irresponsible to publish a hack that could be dangerous to someone who does not understand the risks, especially on a public forum.
The Quick 220 box @Rocky_H mentioned is properly designed to avoid a dangerous situation via its use of relays.
@wws Right, it's about safety, rather than "fear". These methods of joining two circuits will by their nature have the condition that if one side or the other gets pulled out of the receptacle while it is still connected to the car, it will have live voltage on the exposed prongs. The official devices have the sensors to open up the connections if either side gets disconnected like that. Most people buying parts to construct something like that won't also build in that safety sensing circuit.
davewill
Active Member
Yeah, since all exterior and garage outlets have required GFCI for a good 20 years at this point, the opportunities to use it are dwindling.
what do you think is in the 220 combiner? Its a contractor wired to the two legs. Without 220 from opposing legs, the contactor is open. You also can't get any voltage with one plug in anyways, the leg just ends at one side of the plug. Its no different than a 220v extension cable with a missing leg.
There is no work around for a gfi. I'm just going to use 50ft cords on the 2 supply lines, so you can find something in the house.
I'm new to the tesla community, but i think I'm just going to avoid it.
The OP literally says ghetto rigged. Its a ghetto solution to a realistic problem. Just pay for others to solve your problems if you aren't interested in OPs solution.
There is no work around for a gfi. I'm just going to use 50ft cords on the 2 supply lines, so you can find something in the house.
I'm new to the tesla community, but i think I'm just going to avoid it.
The OP literally says ghetto rigged. Its a ghetto solution to a realistic problem. Just pay for others to solve your problems if you aren't interested in OPs solution.
The breaker box would always be better. I pulled a 14,50 in my garage. The problem im running in to is visiting friends. Charging on a 5-15 is useless. Even staying the night adds basically nothing. I thought about carring a 30a pig tail to just open their breaker boxes and leave it open when im there. This seems less intrusive.
Its a pretty simple build. If you give a crap, ill post pics when i get to it. The cord is the only thing that gets expensive.
Lots of comments about "not to code". AFAIK, the IRC only pertains to the building wiring, not to what you plug into it. What code provision does this violate?
I can think of lots of reasons it's a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing and aren't pretty careful about how you do it, but it doesn't seem like "code" is one of them. If you're willing to go to this much trouble it would seem that just pulling a proper new circuit to the garage for an outlet or charger wouldn't be that much more effort.
I can think of lots of reasons it's a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing and aren't pretty careful about how you do it, but it doesn't seem like "code" is one of them. If you're willing to go to this much trouble it would seem that just pulling a proper new circuit to the garage for an outlet or charger wouldn't be that much more effort.
It actually takes more than one relay to handle each of the possible fault cases. Even then, I doubt the Quick220 people have a UL (or equivalent) Seal of Approval on their product. I can easily think of issues the Quick220 does not address. (Personal note: my father was a lawyer who handled a lot of Liability cases over his career. So perhaps I am a bit more jaded than most when it comes to safety...)
Nonetheless, welcome to the Tesla community! I've learned much from the amazing people in these forums, and contribute when I can. Hopefully you will as well.
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gtae07
Member
I've always figured the application for this was cases where you're visiting somewhere without a "real" charging outlet and no feasible public charging nearby, but 120V isn't enough. I've even seen them referred to as an "airbnb special". I've honestly mused putting one together myself for when I'm visiting the in-laws since putting in a "proper" outlet would be cost probibitive.
ATPMSD
Active Member
OPs plan is a bad idea in so many ways!
Here is a much easier way to do this. You will have to get into the breaker box so find a friend (or electrician) if you are uncomfortable. Do this:
Here is a much easier way to do this. You will have to get into the breaker box so find a friend (or electrician) if you are uncomfortable. Do this:
- Verify the 120V 20A outlet in the garage is dedicated with nothing else on the circuit. Very importance NOTHING ELSE!
- Identify the breaker in the box serving this outlet
- Replace the single-pole 20A breaker with a dual pole GFCI 20A breaker. You may need to make some space, but this is usually easy to do with something like tandem breakers
- Connect the Black wire to one of the breaker poles
- Disconnect the white wire from the neutral bus, put a piece of red tape on it to signify it is a hot lead and connect it to the other breaker pole
- Now replace the outlet with a QUALITY HEAVY DUTY 6-20.
- Connect the ground wire and black wire. Put a piece of red tape on the white and connect it as well
If you are in an airbnb, I am not sure how you would easily find two outlets on a different phase.
I can't see this being very practical.
The OP already stated that he doesn't have a circuit with just one outlet connected to it, so he can't meet your first requirement.
I don't think I have that either in my house. Is that a common thing, to have circuits with just one load (outlet)?
davewill
Active Member
Sometimes people will put in a dedicated outlet for a freezer or power tool in the garage, and you'll get lucky, but no it's not really common at all.
ATPMSD
Active Member
I would think it would be pretty easy to fix that, just identify what else is on the circuit and disable them. Garage outlets are often, but not always, dedicated. But if this cannot be done then this approach will not work, of course.
A quick google re actual code violations brings up this thread: Combining two 110v/12A circuits?
TLDR: seems to be a code violation.
"The NEC does indeed cover temporary electrical installations. Article 590. 590.2(A), "Other Articles", says "Except as specifically modified in this article, all other requirements of this Code for permanent wiring shall apply to temporary wiring installations." That includes most of articles 250 (grounding), 300 (wiring methods), and 625 (electric vehicle charging).
The Quick220 suffers from several deficiencies. The primary violation is 300.2(B), stating all conductors of the same circuit and equipment grounding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, cable, or cord, from the panel. However, there are numerous violations of grounding code because of multiple EGC's from separate circuits; lack of common-trip for all ungrounded conductors; among others.
When two grounding conductors are used, the failure of a neutral in a feeder -- say to a campground pedestal, which is more common than you might think -- can create a situation where return current will flow through the grounds on the Quick220 device, or in some cases, leave exposed parts of the device at 120V to ground.
It's a bad idea, period. Do it right the first time so people don't get killed."
Ok. So i built this in a few hours. The cord was the most expensive part. You have to push the button to close and latch the 2 pole contactor. There is a slight voltage present on the unplugged cord if the other is in because I put the voltage meter on the line side. This was so i have an indicator for 220v. Maybe if i move it to the load side and use a low wattage incandescent indicator it would work better. Its enough to feel a little buzz across L and N. If you short it with a metal tool, nothing happens, no spark since the meter takes the load.
I wouldnt sell something like this, but its handy for me. Gfi will trip as expected, thats why the cords are long enough to find circuits inside the house. Charges 7m/h as expected. Maybe $100 to 120 in parts, again mostly cable.
Its the only way to charge reasonably at a friends house with no 220 near the front of the house. Driers are sometimes US. I could just open the breaker panel but thats no safer with the cover off all night than this.
No way to follow code and get 220 without access to a plug within 30ft of the drive area. Maybe carry 100ft of 6g cable and all the nema adapters, but. Yeah im rolling with this box.
Thanks again for continuing the conversation. Ive been so turned off by some tesla groups on FB, i just stopped.
I wouldnt sell something like this, but its handy for me. Gfi will trip as expected, thats why the cords are long enough to find circuits inside the house. Charges 7m/h as expected. Maybe $100 to 120 in parts, again mostly cable.
Its the only way to charge reasonably at a friends house with no 220 near the front of the house. Driers are sometimes US. I could just open the breaker panel but thats no safer with the cover off all night than this.
No way to follow code and get 220 without access to a plug within 30ft of the drive area. Maybe carry 100ft of 6g cable and all the nema adapters, but. Yeah im rolling with this box.
Thanks again for continuing the conversation. Ive been so turned off by some tesla groups on FB, i just stopped.
You cant just replace a single breaker with a tandem. They will both pull from the same leg. You need to replace two single breakers with a quad. I did this in my shop. The quad pulls from 2 legs and has a single tied 220 breaker in the #2 and 3 spot.
All the counter arguments against this assume its your house and that you can take the time to modify the breaker box and outlets. The point of a tool like this is allow tapping where proper V/A is just not available.
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