FW updates OTA vs WiFi?

[dsm363]

I can make WiFi available, but I shouldn't have to in order to get updates sooner rather than later. And no sense in sitting at a Starbucks, because there's no guarantee an update will download during the time.

There needs to be a manual update check, and if someone pays for 3G through a Tesla connectivity package, it should negate the need to use WiFi to get updates sooner.

Tesla can determine how they want to roll the updates out. If they decide they want to encourage updates over wifi by making those a priorty over 3G then that is what they will do. We don't know how there actually are going to do it though so are guessing at this point.

 

[NigelM]

I can make WiFi available, but I shouldn't have to in order to get updates sooner rather than later. And no sense in sitting at a Starbucks, because there's no guarantee an update will download during the time.

There needs to be a manual update check, and if someone pays for 3G through a Tesla connectivity package, it should negate the need to use WiFi to get updates sooner.

You lost me somewhere. Sorry, but what's the concern if you CAN make WiFi available? And why worry about the 3G at all if you have no coverage?

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, to the folks discussing a USB update earlier: my prediction is that it won't happen.....

Right now, no-one has easy access to Tesla firmware; it's in the car or it's in the ether and you'd have to capture it to hack it. Capturing the software during transmission isn't impossible but it's also not easy, give someone the software on a stick or downloadable to a PC and it'll get hacked before you can finish reading this thread. Not making FW updates via download to an accessible hard drive is part of Tesla's current safety and security protocol.

 

[wdimagineer]

You lost me somewhere. Sorry, but what's the concern if you CAN make WiFi available? And why worry about the 3G at all if you have no coverage?

This thread kind of derailed so let's see if I can get it back on track.

I don't like that Tesla wants to potentially prioritize updates over WiFi. I don't have it where I park, so I depend on 3G. My coverage is spotty but it exists enough apparently to get me the .61 update.

When a new release comes out I want it sooner rather than later, especially if it contains a fix I've been waiting for.

I could find a Starbucks or a mobile hotspot, but that's not a guarantee that the update will happen.

It just exposes a flaw in their distribution philosophy. And yes, it's me being selfish I guess. I just want to be able to push a button, find new software, download and install without a wait. Other owners might be patient; I'm not.

 

[NigelM]

When a new release comes out I want it sooner rather than later, especially if it contains a fix I've been waiting for.

Other owners might be patient; I'm not.

Don't take this personally, but if you're now on the advanced testing list you will get everything sooner but you'll have to be much more patient in helping to iron out bugs etc.

 

[Doug_G]

As I recall, Tesla has stated that updates and diagnostics will be done via wireless regardless of whether you pay for access.

 

[brianman]

As I recall, Tesla has stated that updates and diagnostics will be done via wireless regardless of whether you pay for access.

As I stated on page 1 (/flex), they have said that. What they haven't said (to my recollection) is whether telemetry data beyond the diagnostic requirements of Tesla will be available. For example, I'm not sure if all of the REST data will be available without paid-for 3G.

 

[phat78boy]

Just because Wi-Fi may get priority, doesn't mean 3G connections will be delayed. Wi-Fi connections would be able to download faster, thus freeing up capacity on the server. With fewer cars left to deploy to, those with 3G should download faster.

Currently they must stagger the rollout as 3G can be slow and time consuming. If your car was queued up towards the end of the software rollout, you could be waiting weeks. If the Wi-Fi connected cars download quickly, it should speed up the rollout for everyone.

 

[montgom626]

entire thread is complete, total, rampant speculation

Why are we spending so much time on discussing something that does not even exist?

 

[jomo25]

Because of the inherent costs of giving away free 3G, I wouldnt be surprised if the 5.0 rollout is much quicker than 4.5 The quicker 5.0 is out there, the quicker Tesla can start charging for 3G data. Unless there are significant bugs with the update.

 

[Jason S]

Why are we spending so much time on discussing something that does not even exist?

Does exist, V5.0 firmware just happened.
On other hand, I welcome the WiFi addition because I've got better WiFi coverage in my garage than I do 3G (or 4G for that matter).

The rest re: prioritization... yeah, whatever. Don't particularly care when I get updates EXCEPT in the case of big things like this.

Thread hijack #2: I really want cellular features that aren't offered yet -- tethering VIA the car and ability to choose my own provider. If I'm gonna pay for the car to have a convenience data connection, then I want that data connection to have optional tethering.

 

[widodh]

I don't think it's a very weird move of Tesla to prioritize WiFi over 3G/4G. If you don't encourage people to do so they will simply not turn on WiFi.

We as forum users might be people who turn on WiFi "because we can", but a lot of people won't bother to turn it on since 3G works just fine.

The problem for Tesla is probably that they have to pay for all the data used by all the cars and if they can say a couple of hundred GigaBytes of downloads over 3G I understand they try to push for that.

Overloading their servers probably isn't the problem, but peak capacity on even internet lines is expensive, so why make an enormous investment in high bandwidth on the servers side which will idle for most of the time until a new firmware comes out? It's just like peak capacity with SuperChargers.

Anyway, I fully understand why Tesla wants to do this and the first thing I'll do when I get my car is hook it up to my WiFi at home. I always try to avoid 3G when possible with my phone.

 

[wdimagineer]

BTW, to the folks discussing a USB update earlier: my prediction is that it won't happen.....

Right now, no-one has easy access to Tesla firmware; it's in the car or it's in the ether and you'd have to capture it to hack it. Capturing the software during transmission isn't impossible but it's also not easy, give someone the software on a stick or downloadable to a PC and it'll get hacked before you can finish reading this thread. Not making FW updates via download to an accessible hard drive is part of Tesla's current safety and security protocol.

A simple integrity check and quick phone home to validate would solve this concern. Any evidence of tampering would abort the update. There are ways to do this securely that can thwart any wannabe hackers.

Other OEMs don't seem to have a problem releasing updates via usb.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

One possible solution to your "firmware impatience" might be a visit to your Service Center. In the past, Service Centers had the ability (and willingness) to pull down firmware updates for cars while they were being serviced. I think they stopped that for a while during the early 4.5 releases because of all of the issues that some people had.

I actually agree with you that I would like to be able to check for updates, and pull them down when I have good connectivity and it fits in my schedule. Tesla should have an area on their web site (only accessible with your Tesla account), where you could see what the latest stable FW build was, read the release notes, and download the software to a USB drive. This is commonplace in the consumer electronics and computer world. I think Ford does this for their MySync system.

 

[widodh]

A simple integrity check and quick phone home to validate would solve this concern. Any evidence of tampering would abort the update. There are ways to do this securely that can thwart any wannabe hackers.

Other OEMs don't seem to have a problem releasing updates via usb.

I guess NigelM tried to say that it would make it easier for people to get their hands on the Tesla F/W.

Right now the car makes a HTTP (SSL) connection with the Tesla servers where it fetches the firmware. Giving people the F/W as a file would enable them to start the reverse engineering process.

 

[gregincal]

This thread kind of derailed so let's see if I can get it back on track.

I don't like that Tesla wants to potentially prioritize updates over WiFi. I don't have it where I park, so I depend on 3G. My coverage is spotty but it exists enough apparently to get me the .61 update.

When a new release comes out I want it sooner rather than later, especially if it contains a fix I've been waiting for.

I could find a Starbucks or a mobile hotspot, but that's not a guarantee that the update will happen.

It just exposes a flaw in their distribution philosophy. And yes, it's me being selfish I guess. I just want to be able to push a button, find new software, download and install without a wait. Other owners might be patient; I'm not.

It doesn't "expose" a flaw in their distribution strategy. Their distribution strategy has always been this way. I've always waited between 2 to 4 weeks before I've gotten an update. Nothing has changed, except they have introduced a way for some people to get them earlier. You want a change to how 3G updates work, but that's a different story and has nothing to do with them introducing the wi if option.

 

[brianman]

(1)A simple integrity check and quick phone home to validate would solve this concern. Any evidence of tampering would abort the update. There are ways to do this securely that can thwart any wannabe hackers.
(2) Other OEMs don't seem to have a problem releasing updates via usb.

(2) Other OEMs don't seem to make a compelling product with software/firmware worth protecting. (Opinion)
(1) You seem to be expressing the opinion that a USB key has a phone and a dedicated line for using that phone. Where does this impression come from?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

This thread kind of derailed so let's see if I can get it back on track.

I don't like that Tesla wants to potentially prioritize updates over WiFi. I don't have it where I park, so I depend on 3G. My coverage is spotty but it exists enough apparently to get me the .61 update.

When a new release comes out I want it sooner rather than later, especially if it contains a fix I've been waiting for.

I could find a Starbucks or a mobile hotspot, but that's not a guarantee that the update will happen.

It just exposes a flaw in their distribution philosophy. And yes, it's me being selfish I guess. I just want to be able to push a button, find new software, download and install without a wait. Other owners might be patient; I'm not.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. You will still get your update, but not as quickly as those with WiFi. I completely agree with Tesla's policy because it will significantly reduce the data load over the 3G network which it has obviously contracted with AT&T and possibly other providers. This costs Tesla money. Offloading data to WiFi that would otherwise require 3G either lowers the 3G network costs for Tesla or allows it to continue offering it free for a longer period of time. Either of those is okay with me.

You have a unique situation where you don't have a stable WiFi connection where you park. Okay, sorry about that. But you will still get your update. If it doesn't come to you fast enough, and if you aren't willing to park your car near a WiFi hot spot due to your impatience to receive updates, then you will have to take your car to a service center to have the update manually installed. You have options, it's just that you don't like the options that are available.

Everything you wrote has to do with your lack of patience over receiving a hypothetical future firmware update that may hypothetically contain a hypothetical feature or bug fix that you hypothetically would need urgently. Let's put this in perspective!

 

[brianman]

Why are we spending so much time on discussing something that does not even exist?

Because it does exist... according to the 5.0 firmware release notes that have already been posted in another thread.

 

[wdimagineer]

(2) Other OEMs don't seem to make a compelling product with software/firmware worth protecting. (Opinion)
(1) You seem to be expressing the opinion that a USB key has a phone and a dedicated line for using that phone. Where does this impression come from?

Back when I worked for a major bank we'd distribute firmware to remote branches via usb for updating ATMs that still had dial up modems. Numerous safeguards existed and it never was a problem.

The car has connectivity. If a usb update is attempted the car can phone home to ensure the update is valid before proceeding. Any evidence of tampering would cause it to abort and fail.

 

[wdimagineer]

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. You will still get your update, but not as quickly as those with WiFi. I completely agree with Tesla's policy because it will significantly reduce the data load over the 3G network which it has obviously contracted with AT&T and possibly other providers. This costs Tesla money. Offloading data to WiFi that would otherwise require 3G either lowers the 3G network costs for Tesla or allows it to continue offering it free for a longer period of time. Either of those is okay with me.

You have a unique situation where you don't have a stable WiFi connection where you park. Okay, sorry about that. But you will still get your update. If it doesn't come to you fast enough, and if you aren't willing to park your car near a WiFi hot spot due to your impatience to receive updates, then you will have to take your car to a service center to have the update manually installed. You have options, it's just that you don't like the options that are available.

Everything you wrote has to do with your lack of patience over receiving a hypothetical future firmware update that may hypothetically contain a hypothetical feature or bug fix that you hypothetically would need urgently. Let's put this in perspective!

I admitted that it was a selfish desire, yes. It's just the way I do things. I'm already running Android 4.3 on my Note, iOS 7 on my apple devices, OS X Mavericks on my apple computers, and windows 8.1 on my PCs. I work in IT. I like being an early adopter.

I actively provide feedback in all of these cases.

I posted my opinion. Others seem to have blown it out of proportion. I would like Tesla to revisit this, especially if I end up paying for their connectivity service. A simple update checker mechanism is all that's needed.