FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[JHCCAZ]

FSD needs to have an icon to clearly indicate whether destination is set or not. Also it needs to remind the user if destination is not set when FSD is engaged.

Possible pop-up notifications:

• Bridge to Nowhere
• Road to Hell
• Where are you going with this?
• Make up yo' damn mind
• You're on the wrong track buddy
• This is leading us nowhere
• You seem completely directionless
• To Infinity and Beyond!

And the best one I think:

âï¸ Heading Sir?

27 seconds · Clipped by JHCCAZ · Original video "Star Trek: The Motion Picture (9/9) Movie CLIP - Thattaway (1979) HD" by Movieclips

youtube.com

 

[JHCCAZ]

Couldn't they train a very small net to detect for the haze and other such camera issues and then report the issue on screen and recommend servicing?

Yes I think so, as I said above.

2. Assign a team member to work the problem by finding and or creating a set of training clips that teach the AI to self diagnose this problem. The kind of smearing glare that it creates is not hard to teach. Then the car can notify the driver and notify the factory that cleaning service is required.

 

[spacecoin]

I was about to say that that's fraud, but then I noticed that the whole graph is screwy, so I just think someone incompetent created it. The yellow numbers are the number of months between each x-axis label. I can't figure out how someone could screw up that much—am I missing something?

View attachment 1041719

It's extremely misleading, but it has nothing to do with incompetence.

Dustin Moskovitz (@moskov) on Threads

I went on a journey last night. To recap my 3 post series: 1/ the graph Tesla AI released yesterday was manipulated to show an exponential growth trend 2/ in spite of that it also showed FSDv12 is clearly worse than prior versions 3/ the real data is readily available from TSLA investor...

www.threads.net

 

[Pdubs]

.....
Anybody want to start a discussion thread on there experiences.
.......

*their

 

[Pdubs]

Possible pop-up notifications:

• Bridge to Nowhere
• Road to Hell
• Where are you going with this?
• Make up yo' damn mind
• You're on the wrong track buddy
• This is leading us nowhere
• You seem completely directionless
• To Infinity and Beyond!

And the best one I think:

âï¸ Heading Sir?

27 seconds · Clipped by JHCCAZ · Original video "Star Trek: The Motion Picture (9/9) Movie CLIP - Thattaway (1979) HD" by Movieclips

youtube.com

I wanted to give this a thumbs down for such blatant lack of creativity. You had a huge opportunity here to actually be funny. (this was cute, but you could have gone next level. Here, allow me:

Possible pop-up notifications:

• Bridge to Nowhere Bridge of Sighs (Robin Trower)
• Road to Hell Highway to Hell (AC/DC)
• Where are you going with this? Dave Matthews would have left off with this
• Make up yo' damn mind Should I Stay or Should I Go (The Clash)
• You're on the wrong track buddy Wrong Side of Heaven (FFDP)
• This is leading us nowhere Everybody Knows This is Nowhere (Neil Young)
• You seem completely directionless Dazed and Confused (Led Zeppelin)
• To Infinity and Beyond! This one was actually pretty good

Then instead of a pop-up which come up too small and goes away too fast, it plays the song. (Five Finger Death Punch may be a little much for the typical Tesla crowd, but it plays nice.

This is the way.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

• Most annoying problem- FSD is too timid at intersections requiring accelerator pushes. Super annoying.

Uncharacteristically I'll offer a positive take on this: It keeps the supervising driver engaged in supervising. If there is nothing for the driver to do 99% of the time, it is very possible they will mentally 'check-out' and miss something really dangerous.

 

[Joboo7777]

Supposedly the testers are validating a new version. Why even bother with 12.3.5 if it’s a clear regression.

Has anyone in the legacy FSD beta group receive 12.3.5?

 

[Knightshade]

As with most things on that page, don’t believe it!

That would only be 4 seconds at 45mph and it is very clear the car can see considerably further than that (I would guess it can see about six seconds at that speed at a minimum).

Very clear how? Guess based on what?

With what reliability it is hard to say of course!

If it can't reliably see further than it can't see further for any useful RT purpose.

None of these numbers are good compared to humans, but it may be enough to allow for a very high success rate on this turn.

Or it may not.

Given they've failed at reliability doing this relatively simple task, for years of training effort, may not seems more likely.

 

[Twiglett]

Everyday I use FSD for every drive and it's been weeks since I had a critical safety issue. Certainly couldn't say that on V11 which had critical safety issues all the time.

• My most common disengagements now are still potholes and police/road crews using hand gestures since there is so much road work beginning now that winter is over.
• Speed control still needs improvement but since I'm usually driving with other cars nearby FSD does a reasonable job of matching their speeds.
• Like everyone else lane change selection needs work.
• Most annoying problem- FSD is too timid at intersections requiring accelerator pushes. Super annoying.

Overall- if I never disengage FSD would make the destination every time. FSD might have to reroute when it screws up lane changes but that is my experience. Doubt FSD would be this successful if I drove more in Boston though.

Kind of with you on this, except for its insistence on crossing double yellow lines to get to the oncoming traffic side of the road.
Most of the the issues are just annoying, but selection the wrong lane or being so far over the center line on two lane roads means I can't trust it even on the basics.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It's extremely misleading, but it has nothing to do with incompetence.

View attachment 1041891

Dustin Moskovitz (@moskov) on Threads

I went on a journey last night. To recap my 3 post series: 1/ the graph Tesla AI released yesterday was manipulated to show an exponential growth trend 2/ in spite of that it also showed FSDv12 is clearly worse than prior versions 3/ the real data is readily available from TSLA investor...

www.threads.net

And as has been noted a few times, the majority of the miles under this curve are NOT City Streets miles. It’s around 3/4 (very roughly - it’s hard to determine, we just know it is a large proportion) FSD Freeway/Limited Access miles.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Very clear how? Guess based on what?

It’s not clear how far it can see, but you can establish a minimum based on its reaction to oncoming traffic as it takes the turn. Just watch many of the videos. My point is that position or range is clearly not causing the failures currently, as you suggested it might be.

Again as I pointed out, reliability is a separate (important) topic. Being able to see and respond to a vehicle 250 meters away is not much good if every now and again it decides to pull out in front of a car two seconds away, for whatever reason (would be hard to determine if it is because it didn’t see it).

If it can't reliably see further than it can't see further for any useful RT purpose.

Yep.

Or it may not.

Given they've failed at reliability doing this relatively simple task, for years of training effort, may not seems more likely.

Yep. My point was that range and position of the cameras are extremely clearly not the reasons for the current failings.

It may well become a limit when the reliability level increases and we start to see the statistical nature of the range of perception.

Just isn’t the problem right now, which makes the continued failure to “solve” a problem clearly amenable to simulation even more mysterious.

 

[Knightshade]

Yep. My point was that range of the cameras is extremely clearly not the reason for the current failings.

If it can't see beyond that range reliably it might well be the reason.

And poor placement is certainly the reason it's done poorly at many chuck-tested turns-- he's himself a strong proponent of the B-pillar is insufficient for safe driverless operation and has done videos showing how much better visibility to cross traffic is mounting a side camera in a more forward position is at tough intersections.

 

[zoomer0056]

FSD needs to have an icon to clearly indicate whether destination is set or not. Also it needs to remind the user if destination is not set when FSD is engaged.

FSD was innocently killed by me 4 times in less than 5 minutes.

I drove my car from a grocery parking to lane 1 of a 3 lane street then engaged FSD.
Suddenly the car jumped to lane 2. I disengaged and moved the car back to lane 1 so that it could make left turn to my neighborhood in .3 mile.
I engaged FSD again but the car jumped to lane 2 again in less than a minute. I disengaged and moved the car back to lane 1, re-engaged FSD and manually changed to the designated left turn lane. While waiting for left turn green light, FSD moved the wheel to the right and jumped back to lane 1. I thought FSD was crazy. I disengaged again and made the left turn when green light was on. Then I re-engaged FSD and I expected the car to make right turn at the next block. But FSD accelerated and skipped the right turn and went straight. I disgenaged and realized that I did not set destination for FSD.

It is easy to see when navigation is on. Isn't there a turn list and ETA in navigation mode? An additional icon would be redumbnant (as Jake would say).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

And poor placement is certainly the reason it's done poorly at many chuck-tested turns-- he's himself a strong proponent of the B-pillar is insufficient for safe driverless operation and has done videos showing how much better visibility to cross traffic is mounting a side camera in a more forward position is at tough intersections.

I was speaking to this specific turn, where position is clearly a non-issue.

Obviously it matters on some turns.

Here it just means it needs to creep out to a very comfortable and safe position, where it can see.

If it can't see beyond that range reliably it might well be the reason.

No because that’s not why it has failed recently, clearly. It just stopped in the middle of the road. After making a very safe decision to go.

It’s super clear that is not the issue at the moment.

Remember we are talking about success 9 out of 10 times, only. At the moment.

Unlikely that the occasional move out in front of traffic 2 seconds out is going to “impact” that metric. And we certainly have not seen it lately.

Once we get to 99/100 we can revisit this topic.

But even that potential issue should be able to be simulated.

 

[JB47394]

Couldn't they train a very small net to detect for the haze and other such camera issues and then report the issue on screen and recommend servicing?

Let's wait until they get the automatic wipers working properly. It's the same sort of problem.

 

[JB47394]

It is easy to see when navigation is on.

When engaging FSD, have it say "Navigating to your destination". The driver shouldn't be invited to spend time looking at the screen while driving. With the screen off to the side, about the only thing it's good for in terms of notifications is things like flashing blue to let you know that you should be paying attention to the road. That blue flashing can be seen out of the corner of the eye and doesn't invite the driver to look at it. Certainly not to try to glean any information from it.

When engaging FSD without a destination, it could say "Following current road", "Following current lane", or some such thing. They really need a lot of voice prompts for stuff like this. Which the driver should be able to turn off individually.

 

[zoomer0056]

The driver shouldn't be invited to spend time looking at the screen while driving.

The screen is where the controls are, where the map is, where the music is, where the blind spot cameras are .... Navigation is only on when the driver turns it on. That's done on the screen or a voice command. The driver in control really needs to scan the controls for situational awareness. I'm not saying vocal cues can't help but the OP's description saying they had no idea if navigation was on is not the fault of the car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This would be a good time for them to also review the recall for stop signs and get it fixed up. We would all benefit.

Tesla seems to have a difficult time robustly fixing the recall items.

https://wapo.st/3JyXay2

 

[JB47394]

The driver in control really needs to scan the controls for situational awareness.

I couldn't disagree more. The driver is responsible for maintaining situational awareness of the exterior. That's the main task of operating a motor vehicle. If the car has important information that the driver needs to know about, it should provide a means of communicating that while distracting the driver as little as possible. That's why we have turn signals that make a sound. Why we have bumps and a hub on steering wheels. Why a stick shift moves to a unique position for each gear (tap-to-shift systems are terrible for human factors). A driver should be able to stay focused on what's important, and the car should support them in that effort.

 

[zoomer0056]

The driver is responsible for maintaining situational awareness of the exterior.

For one, the driver needs to see, look at, monitor the speedometer ... its on the screen along with many other things.