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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
zoomer0056
Active Member
He must be using Google glasses and having an AI assistant write it up in real time. Lots of details.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Those are not violations - those are bugs
The NHTSA requirement is not to do a "California stop", which apparently is done all over the US.
I wish Tesla took that to the court. Would be interesting to see what the court says - should automatic driving be held to a higher standard than common practice.
It's default. It's not assessing the scene and tailoring an optimized response.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Those are not violations - those are bugs
The NHTSA requirement is not to do a "California stop", which apparently is done all over the US.
I wish Tesla took that to the court. Would be interesting to see what the court says - should automatic driving be held to a higher standard than common practice.
California stops are illegal though.
The fact a lot of people get away with speeding doesn't make that legal either.
Yes! Another default response allowing universal stop sign behavior that satisfies an empty crosswalk or a crosswalk with little old ladies and children crossing.
So how are they implementing these default responses that seemingly ignore scenery differences?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Right - so, why not require Tesla to not speed ?
Is there any data to backup NHTSA assertion that not completely stopping at red lights leads to more accidents ? I think there is enough data to prove speeding leads to more accidents ...
We want govt agencies (and courts) to make decisions based on facts - not blindly.
ps : NHTSA claim was that it was a safety issue (IIRC), not that it was "illegal".
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
In a separate recall Tesla was supposed to fix "the perceived duration of the vehicle’s static position at certain intersections with a stop sign, particularly when the intersection is clear of any other road users;"Those are not violations - those are bugs
And in response Tesla claimed that they "Improved the longitudinal slowdown control profile when leading up to stop sign intersections to make the overall maneuver feel more perceptible and natural."
Sounds like it's time for another recall!
Interesting that driving straight through an intersection from a turn lane is considered a feature and not a bug.
"Updated the behavior for certain scenarios where the Tesla may maneuver from a turn lane to continue traveling straight. These maneuvers will now be treated as a lane change, where the turn indicator is used to alert other drivers of the Tesla's intent."
I didn't realize this was legal.
But I'm an equal-opportunity rim destroyer. I've squashed/quashed/scratched/trashed most of the rims I've ever had on any cars.
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
Wow, you were absolutely right! I took the car to the West LA Service Center (it needed a tire rotation anyway), and at first the techs were skeptical, claiming that the FSD cameras were SUPPOSED to look that way, and were not intended for driving at night or when it's very sunny (?!?!), therefore it's not a warranty issue and not covered. (I mean, WTF??) Full Self Driving (Supervised)(Except at night)(Except when it's sunny)??
I pressed them on it (I actually had to approve a $255 estimate for them to do the diagnosis at all), and when they took off the camera housing they discovered a thick layer of chemical residue on the inner glass and camera lenses. They cleaned it, apologized, comped the diagnostic fee ("Goodwill"), and expressed disbelief that this isn't part of the standard annual maintenance checklist, at least for FSD-enabled cars. Now the problem appears to be completely fixed. And now we know! Thanks again for the insight!
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NHTSA doesn't care about the legality. NHTSA received user complaints about it being unsafe and determined it is a subjectively a safety issue. That is not something that can be contested in courts.Those are not violations - those are bugs
The NHTSA requirement is not to do a "California stop", which apparently is done all over the US.
I wish Tesla took that to the court. Would be interesting to see what the court says - should automatic driving be held to a higher standard than common practice.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Because the default behavior of the system is...not to speed. It sets speed max to observed (or mapped) speed limit.
The only way it can ever speed is if the human instructs it to (either via settings, scroll wheel, accelerator, etc).
Whereas the DEFAULT prior to the recall was to make illegal stops.
That said- I assure you any driverless system will be required not to speed either.
And AFAIK only place I can find "safety" referenced is Teslas description of the defect in their voluntary recall notice so apparently Tesla thinks it's a safety issue.
PianoAl
Active Member
Do you have any before and after vids? You might find before vids for the affected camera on the USB drive.
Lane switching drives me crazy. Two miles and even at one mile to the exit there were many perfect and easy wide open opportunities to switch lanes in preparation to take the exit. Instead it procrastinates and with 100 feet to go, it suddenly remembers that it has to switch, and tries to squeeze into the right lane with heavy almost crawling traffic, fails and misses the exit. Dumb as a dodo.
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
Click to expand on my above post to see a Before vid. I haven't checked any After vids from the thumb drive yet, but I presume they will look very much cleaner and sharper, as they do on my other car (2017 Model 3). Nighttime driving doesn't throw warnings anymore, so it's clearly much better than it was.
I swear that one of the Tesla FSD/AI engineers on X posted that they were surprised how much of an issue it was and that they were, or had, created a procedure for techs to follow for making sure the inside of the windshield is clean. (But I can't find that X post right now.)
They have procedures for all models:
Here is procedure from the 2021+ Model S service manual: Windshield (Clean Camera Area) (Which covers how to inspect from the outside to see if it needs to be performed.)
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This is one of the most annoying experiences and moves, and most ppl will says that this portion is STILL on V11, even though there is some question about WHEN it switches to V12.. regardless, there has been a real regression here in ability to navigate highways and properly get in position for taking an upcoming exit. The last time I had this happen the car had move TWO lanes to the left of the RIGHT exit lane, and at the last minute ~ .6-.7 mile out decelerated to 45 mph to try and get over.. this was on a posted 65 mph highway where most vehicles - regardless of lane are going 70+
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Hopefully getting that first nine is the hardest. Maybe the local Tesla community can organize a UPL event to finally get enough training data?
exactly this ^^
Since 12.3.4 while approaching a traffic light needing to turn left while driving in the left most lane with 200ft to go, the car signals right and moves over, then with <100ft to go tries to move back but can't due to traffic. Even FSD 10.69.x did better than that.
I am afraid Tesla will not accept to avoid lawsuits for unpaid work and accidents.
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