FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[JulienW]

Well at work get the all but UNimportant 12.3.4 Notification. Downloaded, got off work and went to the gym then hit Install. Got in car and decided to cross the city (on east side to west side) for a test. Pulled out on Pediment and PERFECT a just set up temporary work zone and having to cross the yellow. Smiled and gav'er a Pull and...........Cruse Control Unavailable. What the hell? Pulled into a side street, checked Autopilot menu and then did a MCU reboot and nada. So F'n manually driving turn on 17th St and car coming. Want to test FSDS since as you can see this is a little tricky. I just wanted on the car and as it got closer to me I was like WHAT the HELL is THAT.

It was a Waymo that was just dropped on in ATL for testing and FSDS BLEW it. I wanted a face off soooooo bad.

Did the old Service Power Off and letting it s$it for a couple of hours.

 

[questionmark]

It would have been awesome to

Well at work get the all but UNimportant 12.3.4 Notification. Downloaded and got off work and went to the gym and hit Install. Got in car and decided to cross the city (on east to west side) for a test. Pulled out on Pediment and PERFECT a just set up temporary work zoon having to cross the yellow. Smiled and gav'er a Pull and...........Cruse Control Unavailable. What the hell? Pulled into a side street, checked Autopilot menu and then did a MCU reboot and nada. So F'n manually driving turn on 17th St and car coming. Want to test FSDS since as you can see this is a little trick. I just wanted on the car and as it got to me I was like WHAT the HELL is THAT.

It was a Waymo that was just dropped on in ATL for testing and FSDS BLEW it. I wanted a face off soooooo bad.

Did the old Service Power Off and letting it s$it for a couple of hours.

View attachment 1039062

It would have been awesome to compare! I didn't know that Waymo was in Atlanta!

 

[JulienW]

It would have been awesome to

It would have been awesome to compare! I didn't know that Waymo was in Atlanta!

That is because it JUST happened today. That is even a caricature of part of downtown.

 

[aronth5]

I think it's probably a bug related to the new feature to avoid blocking intersection.

It was a T intersection so the behavior of just sitting at the intersection without ever moving was surprising. I just went back. No cars from either direction and FSD stopped and turned right as expected. No delay at all.

 

[lzolman]

I’ve had that one happen with v12. And with a biker coming down the right side bike lane going straight when the car wanted to turn right. Had to disengage for sure. Granted. Stupid biker. But still.

With Nameless doing the driving on the back roads returning from the eclipse, the road had a gravelly shoulder you would not want to be jogging on so the jogger coming towards me didn't have a lot of room. V12.3.3 I think it still was did not hint at moving over for her until I had to disengage and take care of it. I don't think there were any vehicles in the oncoming lane whatsoever. Not amused.

 

[BBTX]

On the sub-debate about reaction times (context: I used to be a track junkie at instructing at DE events):

What I heard in various classrooms when I was coming into that world was along the lines of roughly ~200ms for a conscious decision loop and action by someone that's fully focused on the task at hand. The context was relatively-newbie track drivers trying to get through a corner at optimal slip: you realistically get about 5 micro-adjustments per second (feel the ever-changing slip of the wheels through your body, process it semi-consciously, react with quick subtle adjustments to steering and/or accelerator).

However (and here's the more-interesting bit!): For track driving, basically it's known that in a high performance car driving at the limit on slicks, that's simply not good enough to do an excellent job and be a great driver. Human conscious processing is just too slow. What you gain through many hours and years of training yourself on the track is that you teach your spinal cord to handle that reaction for you, and then it can happen much faster without your conscious involvement, thus allowing you to really drive optimally on the edge of traction. At that point you never really think about traction consciously, it's just automatic. You focus on higher-level events and longer-time-horizon aspects of driving.

I suspect some aspects of this translate to everyday driving as well. Adults who have accumulated lots of driving experience have probably similarly trained automatic high-speed reactions for all kinds of daily situations (like catching certain motion out of the corner of your eye at an intersection or when changing lanes, etc. To some degree even the traction/slip bit). IMHO, based on this I tend to think that an ADAS with a ~200ms minimum reaction time for all inputs->output decisions can never be better than a fresh teenager. If the ADAS can't achieve lower-latency reactions to emergency events, it will never be as competent as a seasoned adult.

 

[tmoz]

Wake me up when V12.4.x drops.

 

[Tronguy]

Ha. Got a good one for you guys.

So, there was this guy, Seward Johnson, who was a scion of the J&J crowd. You know, the company that makes band-aids. Being independently wealthy, he picked up a hobby: Making life-like statues of various people. In New Jersey, the old State Fair grounds (long gone) has been converted into a large park, Grounds for Sculpture, that has tons of his work. And lots of others, too.

I think that people might have seen pictures of his Marilyn Monroe contribution to the Arts, let's see if I can find a shot..

So, the town I live in has been doing Something About The Arts, and has a life-sized (as compared to the 40' variant shown above) of Marilyn in front of a local theater. That doesn't affect a Tesla.

But Seward didn't just do famous people. Grounds for Sculpture has people sitting on park benches, reading newspapers, little girls playing in the park. Like Madame Tussards, it's not unusual for normal flesh-and-blood types to mistake a statue for a real person: They're that life-like.

So.. the people who planted Marilyn in front of the theater near here didn't stop with just her. On the street corner near the post office, they've got a $RANDOM guy on a skate board, nominally skating away from the street, but with the rear of the skate board about two feet from the curb. He's been out there for a month or so now.

And, every time my FSD-equipped M3 or the SO's MY on the free trial goes past that spot, on either side of the road, the cameras get One Good Look at that Skateboarder and slows the cars 'way, 'way down. Clearly, FSD sees that guy, can't tell which way he's going (I guess he could be skating backwards, it's not clear) and, in the interest of safety, slows to a crawl.

So, what I want to know: Is this something the Tesla guys have to worry about? Realistic statues or mannequins planted alongside the roads?

 

[mgs333]

Ha. Got a good one for you guys.

So, there was this guy, Seward Johnson, who was a scion of the J&J crowd. You know, the company that makes band-aids. Being independently wealthy, he picked up a hobby: Making life-like statues of various people. In New Jersey, the old State Fair grounds (long gone) has been converted into a large park, Grounds for Sculpture, that has tons of his work. And lots of others, too.

I think that people might have seen pictures of his Marilyn Monroe contribution to the Arts, let's see if I can find a shot..
View attachment 1039125

So, the town I live in has been doing Something About The Arts, and has a life-sized (as compared to the 40' variant shown above) of Marilyn in front of a local theater. That doesn't affect a Tesla.

But Seward didn't just do famous people. Grounds for Sculpture has people sitting on park benches, reading newspapers, little girls playing in the park. Like Madame Tussards, it's not unusual for normal flesh-and-blood types to mistake a statue for a real person: They're that life-like.

So.. the people who planted Marilyn in front of the theater near here didn't stop with just her. On the street corner near the post office, they've got a $RANDOM guy on a skate board, nominally skating away from the street, but with the rear of the skate board about two feet from the curb. He's been out there for a month or so now.

And, every time my FSD-equipped M3 or the SO's MY on the free trial goes past that spot, on either side of the road, the cameras get One Good Look at that Skateboarder and slows the cars 'way, 'way down. Clearly, FSD sees that guy, can't tell which way he's going (I guess he could be skating backwards, it's not clear) and, in the interest of safety, slows to a crawl.

So, what I want to know: Is this something the Tesla guys have to worry about? Realistic statues or mannequins planted alongside the roads?

Definition of an edge case but if a human driver would get spooked, you would expect v12 to also get spooked but humans should pick up the lack of movement and conclude it's not a threat, don't know how fast v12 NN can decide it's not a threat. In your case, does it only pick up speed once it's past the statue?

 

[kabin]

On the sub-debate about reaction times (context: I used to be a track junkie at instructing at DE events):

What I heard in various classrooms when I was coming into that world was along the lines of roughly ~200ms for a conscious decision loop and action by someone that's fully focused on the task at hand. The context was relatively-newbie track drivers trying to get through a corner at optimal slip: you realistically get about 5 micro-adjustments per second (feel the ever-changing slip of the wheels through your body, process it semi-consciously, react with quick subtle adjustments to steering and/or accelerator).

However (and here's the more-interesting bit!): For track driving, basically it's known that in a high performance car driving at the limit on slicks, that's simply not good enough to do an excellent job and be a great driver. Human conscious processing is just too slow. What you gain through many hours and years of training yourself on the track is that you teach your spinal cord to handle that reaction for you, and then it can happen much faster without your conscious involvement, thus allowing you to really drive optimally on the edge of traction. At that point you never really think about traction consciously, it's just automatic. You focus on higher-level events and longer-time-horizon aspects of driving.

I suspect some aspects of this translate to everyday driving as well. Adults who have accumulated lots of driving experience have probably similarly trained automatic high-speed reactions for all kinds of daily situations (like catching certain motion out of the corner of your eye at an intersection or when changing lanes, etc. To some degree even the traction/slip bit). IMHO, based on this I tend to think that an ADAS with a ~200ms minimum reaction time for all inputs->output decisions can never be better than a fresh teenager. If the ADAS can't achieve lower-latency reactions to emergency events, it will never be as competent as a seasoned adult.

I think it's a relatively important topic with automated driving systems. In typical Elon fashion he once said FSD's response time was something on the order of 10ms!? I'd be stoked if FSD could respond in 500ms.

In that regard, I just saw a recent tweet where one of NVDA's lead automotive personnel said one of the new Chinese autos equipped with an NVDA design responds in 3.3ms!?

I could believe these numbers if they were processing pipeline updates but full input/output response in a production commercial vehicle? C'mon man!

 

[Scott Chapman]

What's the over/under for the big spring update including 12.4 ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780266303326228508

 

[tivoboy]

Under

 

[lzolman]

What's the over/under for the big spring update including 12.4 ?

Over promise, under deliver?

 

[MP3Mike]

So my ~13 mile drive today was just about as good, only a single hard braking event, but that was for a truck slamming their brakes on in front of me. The yellow light issue seems much improved, I encountered one that I'm sure 12.3.3 would have panic stopped for, but 12.3.4 paused for a brief moment and then proceeded through the intersection. Broken into two drives because of a stop along the route:

Note: the cornering event was me being a little aggressive turning into my driveway.

Hopefully they tame down the take-offs in the next version...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So my ~13 mile drive today

Approx route excluding end points? Curious about speeds.

I think at low speed it’s probably pretty smooth except on the occasion when it completely does not anticipate (as likely occurred here).

Hopefully they’ll actually make the driving styles for acceleration programmable. Seems fine to me at the moment; it is nice to finally be keeping up with and even pulling away from other traffic after stops. Much safer at intersections that way (better visibility for red light runners).

 

[MP3Mike]

Curious about speeds.

Speed limits: 20, 30, 35, 25. Probably 75% 35 MPH. Offset set to 23%, but rolled it to 9 over at each change. So most of the drive at 44MPH.

Only 2 trips so far on 12.3.4, but every prior version got lots of hard braking events.

 

[DrGriz]

Noticed that 12.3.3 and 12.3.4 don't visualize trash containers or orange barrels, cones etc. (except when they did). Is that new?
This weekend we passed about 200 orange barrels, cones, stakes or other markers and maybe 3 showed up. But they did.

 

[MP3Mike]

Noticed that 12.3.3 and 12.3.4 don't visualize trash containers or orange barrels, cones etc. (except when they did). Is that new?

No, none of the V12 versions display cones or garbage bins.

 

[DrGriz]

No, none of the V12 versions display cones or garbage bins.

Thanks. But then that makes me wonder why it did, in a couple of places.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Speed limits: 20, 30, 35, 25. Probably 75% 35 MPH. Offset set to 23%, but rolled it to 9 over at each change. So most of the drive at 44MPH.

Only 2 trips so far on 12.3.4, but every prior version got lots of hard braking events.

Yeah probably kind of marginal for having issues. All depends on the exact route.

Mostly seems the same to me but not a ton of drives. Plenty of early stopping still though so something is seriously wrong as others have said.

Hopefully they’ll clean it up.