FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Tronguy]

How do you rent FSD?

Two ways. On the app, down near the bottom, are 'upgrades'. If you don't have EAP, it's $199/month. If you have EAP, it's $99/month.

Otherwise, on the car, on the Upgrades tab, there's a similar offer.

These days, all the versions delivered to people have FSD built in, typically 11.4.9 at the moment. So it's not like it was last year, where, after doing the rental/buy/whatever, you had to wait for an FSD version embedded in a standard load whose version number (yyyy.ww.random.numbers) was higher than the one you had on the car. So, once you've paid for it with ye credit card, it should be available pretty much immediately.

Finally: If you have a base Tesla with none of this EAP/FSD stuff, under the Autopilot tab, there's a button near the top that enables/disables autopilot's lane keeping/TACC, both of which you have to answer Scary Accept This buttons before you can use either, with warnings. Fair enough.

When you add EAP, you get two, count'em, two of those buttons, along with scary warnings for each. The EAP one is to the right of the Standard one. If the EAP is off, it's like you didn't pay for it and it doesn't work. If it's on, you get the fun auto lane change (if the option is enabled), plus whatever else EAP does for one.

When you add FSD, you get three buttons up there, the right-most one with the FSD capabilities.

 

[JulienW]

Two ways.... after doing the rental.....

Hubby: Honey do you think we can rent Disney + since we already rent Netflix?

Wifey: Well don't forget we rent Apple TV + also so we might as will just rent cable if we are going to rent so many packages.

Hubby: I guess we could also add internet rent to the cable rent package.

Wifey: To bad they don't rent cell service also.

 

[Tronguy]

Hubby: Honey do you think we can rent Disney + since we already rent Netflix?

Wifey: Well don't forget we rent Apple TV + also so we might as will just rent cable if we are going to rent so many packages.

Hubby: I guess we could also add internet rent to the cable rent package.

Wifey: To bad they don't rent cell service also.

Ha. Actually, the SO and I drive two Teslas, a M3 and a MY. She doesn't care for all the fancy FSD stuff, but has EAP on the Y.

We're talking about taking a trip to Dallas to watch the eclipse (motto of this trip: Look at all that rain!). Since we're going to be meeting relatives there.. and it's a long drive... we're thinking about renting FSD for that month.

 

[JulienW]

Ha. Actually, the SO and I drive two Teslas, a M3 and a MY. She doesn't care for all the fancy FSD stuff, but has EAP on the Y.

We're talking about taking a trip to Dallas to watch the eclipse (motto of this trip: Look at all that rain!). Since we're going to be meeting relatives there.. and it's a long drive... we're thinking about renting FSD for that month.

Point: It is a subscription service and you subscribe to it. So you are "thinking about subscribing to FSD for a month".

 

[Supcom]

According to Teslascope, 12.2.1 is rolling out to employees and special friends.

 

[JulienW]

According to Teslascope, 12.2.1 is rolling out to employees and special friends.

Elon, I love everything about you and worship you 100% of my awaken hours. I humbly request to be one of your special friends.

You loving, praising and fully believing special friend,
WJ

 

[Tronguy]

Elon, I love everything about you and worship you 100% of my awaken hours. I humbly request to be one of your special friends.

You loving, praising and fully believing special friend,
WJ

Heh. And if a sudden new intervention rolls in when you least expect it, what will be your feelings when you're in that ditch?

 

[JulienW]

Heh. And if a sudden new intervention rolls in when you least expect it, what will be your feelings when you're in that ditch?

I'm an original Beta tester and I am always expecting. Anyone who drove 10.3 for a few days experienced the worst Beta is likely to EVER be.

 

[kabin]

Elon, I love everything about you and worship you 100% of my awaken hours. I humbly request to be one of your special friends.

You loving, praising and fully believing special friend,
WJ

Special friends, not special needs.

Just kidding.

 

[kabin]

So it's been one week short of 6 months since Elon's initial drive and so far we've heard of releases v12.1, v12.1.2, v12.2, v12.2.1 and we really don't know much about any of them. Hopefully there will be a bit more visibility and maybe even some release notes.

 

[JulienW]

So it's been one week short of 6 months since Elon's initial drive and so far we've heard of releases v12.1, v12.1.2, v12.2, v12.2.1 and we really don't know much about any of them. Hopefully there will be a bit more visibility and maybe even some release notes.

Everyone will have v12 in less than "two weeks" guaranteed.

 

[aronth5]

I think only YT influencers outside of Tesla employees have FSD V12.*.

No YT influencers have V12 yet with the exception of Omar. However under 200 non-employees have been testing V12.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759369060964524062

 

[aronth5]

I understand that v12.2 is going to HW3 cars. Omar has HW4.

TeslaScope is stating V12.2.1 has support for HW4 too.

 

[TK211X]

I’m pretty upset none of the V12 versions have popped on Teslafi yet. That’s all I care about. It going to actual subscribers.

 

[drtimhill]

Elon, I love everything about you and worship you 100% of my awaken hours. I humbly request to be one of your special friends.

You loving, praising and fully believing special friend,
WJ

You 15 minutes after getting the upgrade: "Damn V12 is AWFUL .. so many things that are worse than V11!!!".

J/k of course, but it's interesting how many ppl here (a) jump up and down about getting the latest beta and then (b) complain about it being unfinished (i.e. a beta).

I'm interested in getting V12 when its stable enough that I can use it every day to give feedback to Tesla, but NOT at the expense of fraying my nerves as if my son was learning to drive all over again

 

[sleepydoc]

Everyone will have v12 in less than "two weeks" guaranteed.

Elon's been distracted by SpaceX lately - he meant 2 martian weeks.

 

[drtimhill]

Elon's been distracted by SpaceX lately - he meant 2 martian weeks.

Good try!! Sadly Mars has about the same length day as Earth, so he cant get away with that

Unless of course you define "week" as 1/52nd of a year (instead of 7 days), in which case the weeks would be about 14 (earth or martian) days.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Pick summer time to do the drive. You are telling me it wouldn't be possible for there to be a day in the year where you can map a coast to coast route that avoids rain? Nothing in the definition requires it to be "practical". And as pointed out, it can stop until the rain clears and continue.
Rain is just an example, it can also be fog, which is much more rare. If the car can't travel in fog that a human can, it's automatically disqualified from SAE L5, but plenty of people would still consider it L5.

No one asked him the details, people just assumed because he says L5 he means the same as SAE. As pointed out above, the definition for SAE has a ton of nuance that would disqualify a car from a certain level. And his reference to reliability levels also is inconsistent with SAE definitions (that's not a criteria in SAE's definition).

That really doesn’t sound like Elon. I’m pretty sure the goal is to have FSD drive under any conditions that humans can reasonably drive. I doubt he’s talking to the team about how they can restrict the ODD enough to do a driverless coast to coast drive.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That really doesn’t sound like Elon. I’m pretty sure the goal is to have FSD drive under any conditions that humans can reasonably drive. I doubt he’s talking to the team about how they can restrict the ODD enough to do a driverless coast to coast drive.

Given the revelations about how much effort they went to do the first FSD demo drive that started things off, I highly doubt there was zero internal talk about doing a similar highly restricted coast to coast drive just for Elon not to get egg on his face. But he's been wrong so many times already on the timing, people are numb to it, so I guess he doesn't care about it anymore.

In trying to dig up an interview where the interviewer mentioned SAE, I watched some of the other interviews where Elon talks about "level 5" and he talks about completing "basic functionality for Level 5" which is complete nonsense if he was referring to SAE.

The only reference I can find where an executive actually referred to SAE level 5, is GM's when one called Tesla out:
"To be what an SAE level five full autonomous system is, I don’t think he has the content to do that"
GM expert: Elon Musk is ‘full of crap’ on Tesla’s autonomous driving capability

 

[JHCCAZ]

Can Omar do a test in snowy Colorado with almost no visibility?

I think there's a bit of a logical fallacy in the discussions of edge cases like snow and fog conditions. It's a familiar scenario that people take risks driving in such bad and low visibility conditions. You kind of make a bet, knowing you might lose, but most of us have done it before and have stories with usually less than tragic consequences.

It's pretty easy to find YouTube videos of traffic sliding around on icy roads, cars in Seattle spontaneously sliding down the street with a domino effect, and so on. Less common would be collisions due to low visibility in fog (or here in the desert, opaque dust storms or flash-flooded street crossings that can hide a huge washed-out ditch).

Human nature is that we often forge ahead even when we understand that it's risky. Places to go, errands to run, need to get to the school or to the house. If we were to cancel the the plan and it turned out that everyone else made it fine, it would be embarrassing to explain. If we slide the car off the road or have a fender bender in the fog, it's mostly just life experience, and we're limited in harsh judgment of ourselves or our friends.

But - if Tesla FSD, or a robotaxi, takes this kind of risk and fails, there'll be very little understanding and mountains of hysteria. Nationwide coverage. This is kind of obvious, yet we have repeated forum challenges of how Tesla FSD can't be good unless it does take those risks and attempts to operate in situations that you and do (but really shouldn't).

In my view, this is yet another aspect of why true L5 is not only an extremely difficult goal but actually impossible, if we demand the machine conquer all these human driving examples that actually involve high risk. It doesn't matter whether humans usually or nearly always get away with it. That standard won't survive the first post-fatality investigation of the robot driver. Actually, it won't even survive the ire of a disgruntled forum user who busted a rim or smacked into a pole.

I do wish everyone would keep this in mind when they spin up edge cases that FSD "won't ever be able to do". If you think about it sensibly, you don't want it even to try those things with you or your family, or your shiny Tesla.

P.S. this point has nothing to do with excusing Tesla from criticism over design engineering or feature release decisions, e.g. camera cleaning or camera placement. Nor is it an attack on sensible discussion about the car's capability in adverse conditions. I'm pointing out the contradiction of seeking human-like risk-taking (including very questionable circumstances) while also demanding superhuman safety results.