Agreed. I haven't experienced "range anxiety" with the Roadster, but I have experienced "schedule anxiety" due in part to the time required to recharge. Mind you if I'd had full 70A power available it would never have been an issue.
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Fisker Karma
- Thread starter vfx
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- Electric Vehicles fail Fisker karma
NigelM
Recovering Member
Funny that you mention that. I was thinking about that and realized I am late to appointments much less now that I no longer need to stop to fill up with gas
Around town... never an issue. Charging is something that happens while I sleep.
Trying to catch a flight in another city when everything including the weather conspires to make you late, and you're sitting for over two hours charging at a mere 24A? A bit tense. (I just barely made it.)
My guess: There's a lot of interest. But then people see that:
... and they feel it's not worth the price.
OTOH, I still need to use the stinker if I'm going to drive farther than 200 miles in a day. Or if I'm going to park at the airport, since I don't feel like leaving the Roadster there for two weeks at a time. Wouldn't want to leave a Fisker at the airport either, though. And the Prius goes farther on a tank of stink than the Karma does, making the Prius a better choice for a road trip. Based on the abysmal fit and finish, I have to say that the Volt seems like better value for the money than the Karma.
Interesting that the testimonials in the short video above don't address any of the specific criticisms of the long and detailed review posted earlier.
Zzzz...
Member
Fisker raised another $100M. How they do it? Total investments ~$1.2 billion. No IPO. They just keep getting funds... They raised more then Tesla, while they delivered less car and do not have real factory so far, or clear roadmap to compete with tier one automakers(at least TM aiming at 5 models lineup, 2 sedans, 2 SUV, one sport car). Amazing
Fisker Raises Cash, Readies Plan for Second EV - Technology Review
Fisker Raises Cash, Readies Plan for Second EV - Technology Review
Fisker raised another $100M. How they do it? Total investments ~$1.2 billion. No IPO. They just keep getting funds... They raised more then Tesla, while they delivered less car and do not have real factory so far, or clear roadmap to compete with tier one automakers(at least TM aiming at 5 models lineup, 2 sedans, 2 SUV, one sport car). Amazing
Fisker Raises Cash, Readies Plan for Second EV - Technology Review
For the record, Fisker has delivered four times more cars to date and have a Sedan, Convertible, Wagon and a smaller Sedan.
Zzzz...
Member
???
Tesla Motors sold 2400+ Roadsters and 100+ Model S. That is 2500+ cars total.
Fisker Automotive sold 1500 Karmas.
Are you seriously claiming that they sold 10,000, not just 1,500?
As for Fisker lineup, I see only Karma. I'm using Fisker Karma Overview. May be that is a wrong site? Yes, I know they announced "Surf" Karma trim. And they are taking preorders on Atlantic... But Atlantic not yet officially launched. Am I missing something, vfx?
Whoops, I was only counting Model S' (not sure why).
For this conversation at this moment in time;
Karma = the Model S
The Fisker Wagon (Surf) is as valid as the Model X (show cars only)
The Fisker Convertible (Sunset) has no Tesla Equal
The Tesla sports car (Roadster) has no Fisker Equal
The Fisker (Atlantic) has no Tesla equal (only drawings of Bluestar)
smorgasbord
Active Member
Consumer Reports is out with its Fisker Karma review, comparing it to the Porsche Panamera: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/fisker1112.htm
The fit and finish issues aren't as bad as the media portrays. I've had my Karma now for 9 months and have driven it about 2,500 miles. The software works extremely well now that I'm on 6.28. For the record, I've never been stranded, never had my Karma not start or have any mechanical issues. (I did have a charging issue which was traced back to a faulty diode - I must say Fisker customer service was exceptional in its handling of that situation!). In the first version of the software (6.12), there were a few bugs that got worse with subsequent updates until 6.28 fixed all of those. Now the car works like a champ! Yes, the panel gaps are larger than those of Lexus et al. Ditto on some other alignments of some panels. But overall, a pretty well built car from a company that is brand new. I sit on Fisker's Owners' Council and I know much of this will be improved in the next iteration of the Karma (can't say more than that for the time being). Also, I believe as of last week, Fisker has sold over 2,000 Karmas.
For what its worth, having test driven a Model S and been to the stores several times, the S also has its shares of "subpar" fit and finish issues compared to the large masslux folks like Lexus and BMW. Btw, as some have pointed out on Fisker's optimistic promises and projections, I think this past week was a reminder to Tesla lovers that its not so easy to meet expectations (ahem, 5,000 Model S by year end? A rep at the Tesla store said that's more likely to be around 3,500). Both Fisker and Tesla have their respective fates intertwind. The media does not distinguish between EVer and EV.
For what its worth, having test driven a Model S and been to the stores several times, the S also has its shares of "subpar" fit and finish issues compared to the large masslux folks like Lexus and BMW. Btw, as some have pointed out on Fisker's optimistic promises and projections, I think this past week was a reminder to Tesla lovers that its not so easy to meet expectations (ahem, 5,000 Model S by year end? A rep at the Tesla store said that's more likely to be around 3,500). Both Fisker and Tesla have their respective fates intertwind. The media does not distinguish between EVer and EV.
3500 is pretty good. no?
at least the cars work as they are shipped out
Media does not distinguish between EV and EVer and they SHOULD!
Jaff
Active Member
I wonder if any ICE vehicle manufacturers are investing...I mean, it still has an ICE...perhaps the public's acceptance of "Extended Range" EV's will allow the dinosaurs more R & D time to catch up to EVs...:biggrin:
Fisker raised another $100M. How they do it? Total investments ~$1.2 billion. No IPO. They just keep getting funds... They raised more then Tesla, while they delivered less car and do not have real factory so far, or clear roadmap to compete with tier one automakers(at least TM aiming at 5 models lineup, 2 sedans, 2 SUV, one sport car). Amazing
Fisker Raises Cash, Readies Plan for Second EV - Technology Review
I don't care how much $ they raise their business plan and product is flawed... they will never be able to scale up in production plus their product is flawed.
They're going to be a flash in the pan and thats it... They're going to run out of people who will pay 100k for their inferior cars and that will be end the of it.
Investors will get screwed and thats that.
Tesla has the manufacturing potential as well as the vision... Gen III, supercharger network, a true ev (second one) that outperforms most ice cars, and a reservation list out the wazoo...
If you were to place your bets on which company it should be a no brainer.
They're going to be a flash in the pan and thats it... They're going to run out of people who will pay 100k for their inferior cars and that will be end the of it.
Investors will get screwed and thats that.
Tesla has the manufacturing potential as well as the vision... Gen III, supercharger network, a true ev (second one) that outperforms most ice cars, and a reservation list out the wazoo...
If you were to place your bets on which company it should be a no brainer.
3500 is great. All I'm saying is that it is VERY hard to build a new car, especially when you are a new car company. There are a ton of unforeseen and unplanned challenges that make even the best of plans hard to meet. Fisker was first to market with a sedan and suffered its fair share of media scrutiny and 'haterade.' Now Tesla is up to bat with its first sedan.
Also, to the commenter who said the Karma is a hybrid, the Karma is an EV with a range extender - a distinction worth making since under no circumstances does the ICE drive the wheels. A plug-in hybrid, like the Volt or Prius, has circumstances in which the ICE does indeed drive the wheels directly. In theory, the Karma 1.0 could have its genset/range extender replaced in the future with either a smaller/more efficient one or perhaps higher density batteries, making it a pure BEV.
I wish Fisker the best of luck, and I really hope they can get their act together. I do think it was a mistake to focus just on styling and to outsource everythng else. They could have hired and built their own proper engineering team from the start. They also appear to have forced some critical engineering comprimises for the sake of styling and ultimately shiped the car before it was ready.
Lets not go around the whole EV label thing again in this thread. I think it's useful to distinguish a plug-in hybrid with a meaningful all-electric range under most circumstances (like the Karma or the Volt) from regular hybrids or even weak plug-in hybrids like the Plug-in Prius. EVer, EREV, REEV, or whatever are reasonable enough. (Notice that the ones actually in use are brand specific trade names.)
I don't think it's useful to try to play up the difference between the Volt and the Karma drivetrains as a plus for Fisker. The Volt drivetrain more efficient and frankly much much better designed and built. The Karma drivetrain is strictly serial hybrid only because that's easier to engineer and it still turned out a mess.
Lets not go around the whole EV label thing again in this thread. I think it's useful to distinguish a plug-in hybrid with a meaningful all-electric range under most circumstances (like the Karma or the Volt) from regular hybrids or even weak plug-in hybrids like the Plug-in Prius. EVer, EREV, REEV, or whatever are reasonable enough. (Notice that the ones actually in use are brand specific trade names.)
I don't think it's useful to try to play up the difference between the Volt and the Karma drivetrains as a plus for Fisker. The Volt drivetrain more efficient and frankly much much better designed and built. The Karma drivetrain is strictly serial hybrid only because that's easier to engineer and it still turned out a mess.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Ironic then that you started this thread at FB: My fit and finish issues
Are you talking the Beta and RC cars being used for test drives, or the actual production line delivered to customers? I haven't heard anything from Model S owners about fit and finish issues. Elon's supposedly like a hawk on the QC line for those.
The last Fisker owner who posted something like that here had his car breakdown the following weekend. Hope you have better karma (or a better Karma :wink: )
Tesla's fate is not up to the media. Fisker's shouldn't be. I don't agree with the intertwined thing at all. Failure of one won't cause the other to fail, and success of one won't make the other succeed. Most people here, including me, want both companies to succeed.
Oh, and the Karma is a hybrid in my opinion. Dictionary.com agrees:
The Karma is driven by two sources of power AND combines an ICE with electric motors powered by a battery, so it satisfies both criteria to boot.
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