Pebble Flow: all electric RV trailer with powered drivetrain

New California company called Pebble has announced an all electric RV trailer called the Pebble Flow with a 45kWh battery pack that uses two motors to power the wheels as needed to reduce tow vehicle energy usage and when unhitched maneuver it at low speeds at the campsite. 1kW of solar panels on the roof. Can be charged by AC or DC (CCS plug). 25 ft long, can sleep up to 4, “full size” fridge, oven, microwave, induction cooktop. Found one article stating the GVW is 6,200 lbs, pretty heavy, but the aerodynamic shape should help with towing energy efficiency even when not using the onboard motors to drive the wheels. I assume those motors can be controlled to provide varying amounts of assistance.

Has some fancy features including automatic positioning of the trailer tongue onto the tow vehicle hitch ball, powered levelers, bathroom walls that can be changed from opaque to clear to opaque at the touch of a button (when clear they make the interior of the trailer seem larger, cool idea).

Trailer is shown hitched up without safety chains, which is odd. No mention of any kind of dynamic sway control to obviate the need for a weight distribution hitch but it mush have automatic anti-sway capability given it has dual motors on a single axel.

Video from Pebble describing the trailer. Base price is $109K but if you want all the fancy features (including the powered drivetrain) its $125K. Available late 2024.

You can see it IRL at the LA Auto Show this November. I’ll be watching to see where else it is going to show up, as I’m intrigued.

 

[Dracaris]

We're long-time RV owners, and for a time lived in one of them. Based on our experiences, our preference is to stay in more primitive campgrounds as I noted above, so we often dry camp, but we're not boondocker types. As a result of our experience and camping style, we only use our "black" tank for urine unless there's just no other way. Also, based on expensive experience with TP fouling waste tank valves, we treat our black tank as is recommended for marine toilets: "If you didn't eat or drink it first, please don't flush it."

Agree, a shorter version of the Pebble Flow would be advantageous. We used to camp in a 28' Airstream trailer towed with a 1/2-ton pickup for a total length of at least 43', and switched to camping in a 24' Sprinter van upfitted by Airstream with no toad behind it. That is far more maneuverable, though if we could have squeezed ourselves into a 19-20' van that would have been even better. We've really enjoyed and appreciated this change. So, if we ever went back to hauling a camping trailer behind a vehicle like our 2023 Model Y or maybe a Model X, we'd definitely want a trailer tha's no more than 23' long, and preferably not more than 19-20'.

 

[znti64]

Trying to position a 25 ft trailer so that it could be charged at a Supercharger or a CCS station like Electrify America would be impossible in almost all situations. I’ve used a lot of Superchargers over the past decade and can only think of a few that could accommodate it.

The DC charging capability of the Pebble Flow is, for now, more of a sales gimmick than a useful feature. I would charge the trailer at a campsite with AC power.

The Pebble Flow can be detached from Truck, then parked forward or backward easily with remote control. Backing it into a Tesla Supercharger would be easy and fun!

 

[ecarfan]

The Pebble Flow can be detached from Truck, then parked forward or backward easily with remote control. Backing it into a Tesla Supercharger would be easy and fun!

The 25 ft long Flow is too long to maneuver in and out of a Supercharger stall at Supercharger locations in parking lots where there are rows of spaces designed for 12 - 17 ft vehicles, with lanes between the rows that are only about 14 ft wide.

The Model X is 16 1/2 ft long and completely fills a Supercharger stall. The Pebble flow is 25 ft long. If you could somehow get the Flow positioned in the charging stall it will stick out 8 1/2 ft and completely block vehicles from passing by.

 

[ecarfan]

This is the best video I’ve found so far of someone who does not work for Pebble giving a tour of the trailer.

This video is also informative.

 

[ThomasD]

The 6500 lb weight is that empty or loaded?

 

[ecarfan]

The 6500 lb weight is that empty or loaded?

The Pebble website states:

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR): 6,200 lbs (fully loaded with gear)

What it does not appear to state is what the empty dry weight is.

Anyone here go to see it at the LA Auto Show?

 

[ThomasD]

A Brake Controller is not needed. So what happens if you can't charge up the Traction Battery while you are towing? Will Pebble Flow take on the liability risk of not having a Brake Controller in the Tow Vehicle?

 

[Tony de Veyra]

So, I've been thinking about this RV for a bit. If it has two motors on its axle that allows it to push, brake and stabilize itself, what is the limit for the size of towing vehicle that can pull it? What's the stop you from pulling it with a Model Y, a Model 3 or even a Honda Civic? If tongue weight is the limiting factor, is it possible to mitigate that by putting a third wheel near the front? I know little to nothing about engineering, just genuinely curious about how big a challenge that would be. Because if you've already gone this far (putting motors in the drive axles) to make the RV accessible, why not go all the way?

 

[ThomasD]

There is too much of a liability risk to tow it with a vehicle that doesn't have the payload or the rated tow capabilities needed for towing the Trailer. I highly doubt that Pebble Flow would represent you in Court if something happened while towing.

Jail time doubled over fatal caravan crash

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www.newcastleherald.com.au

 

[ecarfan]

There is too much of a liability risk to tow it with a vehicle that doesn't have the payload or the rated tow capabilities needed for towing the Trailer.

Of course any tow vehicle and hitch should be rated for the total weight of what it is towing, and I’m sure Pebble would agree.

 

[Tony de Veyra]

Of course any tow vehicle and hitch should be rated for the total weight of what it is towing, and I’m sure Pebble would agree.

Yes, but don't the Pebble's onboard motors and drive controllers fundamentally change how payload and rated tow capabilities would be calculated, because with those motors engaged, the tow vehicle is no longer providing all (or even most) of the force necessary to move the trailer forward, or slow it down?

and if that is the case, in theory, i would believe that it's certainly in Pebbles' best interest to do all of the testing and engineering necessary to prove that out in the real world, so that there is a paper trail to address the liability question. Because if they prove that their trailer, with its motors and drive controllers and software, can be safely towed by Model Ys, Subaru Foresters and other passenger cars, that would expand their total addressable market. Probably double it.

meh, I'm sure their team has already thought about this internally, and if it's not theoretically possible then maybe performing all of the safety, crash testing etc is just beyond their budgetary limits.

 

[ecarfan]

don't the Pebble's onboard motors and drive controllers fundamentally change how payload and rated tow capabilities would be calculated, because with those motors engaged, the tow vehicle is no longer providing all (or even most) of the force necessary to move the trailer forward, or slow it down?

I agree, the Pebble drivetrain certainly radically changes the relationship between it and the tow vehicle, however I think there is a scenario that has to be considered; you are towing the Pebble with its drivetrain engaged but for some reason it fails (of course the two wheels continue to rotate, they freewheel) and suddenly the tow vehicle has to handle the full weight of the RV. So the tow vehicle has to be up to the task of controlling the Pebble while at speed and then safely braking to stop or potentially carrying on to the destination.

So I think it would be a mistake for potential buyers to think that they do not need a tow vehicle that is rated to tow the total weight of the Pebble when its drivetrain is not engaged.

I'm sure their team has already thought about this internally

I’m sure they have.

 

[Tony de Veyra]

I agree, the Pebble drivetrain certainly radically changes the relationship between it and the tow vehicle, however I think there is a scenario that has to be considered; you are towing the Pebble with its drivetrain engaged but for some reason it fails (of course the two wheels continue to rotate, they freewheel) and suddenly the tow vehicle has to handle the full weight of the RV. So the tow vehicle has to be up to the task of controlling the Pebble while at speed and then safely braking to stop or potentially carrying on to the destination.

So I think it would be a mistake for potential buyers to think that they do not need a tow vehicle that is rated to tow the total weight of the Pebble when its drivetrain is not engaged.

I’m sure they have.

yeah, with a larger vehicle, the pebble drivetrain is a nice to have add on. With a smaller vehicle, the pebble drivetrain is 100% safety and mission critical. So the pebble drivetrain then has to be designed and engineered to be at least as durable and reliable as the drivetrain of whatever the tow vehicle is, if not moreso. Meaning that pebble would have to go far beyond the safety and engineering specs required for a trailer and basically become an automobile manufacturer.

My guess is the engineering team then presented the mountain of testing and compliance required, and then management looked at the budget of their small startup and said no, not possible.

I still think it would be worth it, though. But that's also wholly reflective of my self-serving bias as a model Y owner. Who knows, maybe by the time we get to the the second generation of self-propelled EV trailers in 5-7ish years there will have been enough testing and real world data to make towing with smaller cars a reality. We'll see!

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Pebble doesn't set the tow ratings. It's going to be strictly based on the weight of the trailers. The motorized assistance the Pebble offers is irrelevant when it comes to what is rated to pull it. Your tow vehicle must be able to safely pull it with no assistance. Any help the Pebble can offer is simply a bonus. If your vehicle couldn't/shouldn't pull it w/o assist, then it shouldn't be pulling it, period.
And I'm guessing the legal team at Pebble would say that as well, just more legalese.

 

[ecarfan]

This has the potential to be very cool indeed…

Pebble Powers the Pebble Flow Electric Travel Trailer With NVIDIA DRIVE Orin, Bringing Semi-Autonomous Features to the RV Market

Integrating NVIDIA’s cutting-edge compute power will allow Pebble to develop more features targeting the pain points RV users have struggled with for decades, including parking, hitching and refueling. It will also enable the Pebble Flow to serve as a connected smart home through over-the-air software updates, which will enhance existing and future features through continued innovation for a “tech-first” RV experience…
NVIDIA DRIVE Orin is the world’s highest-performance, automotive-grade, autonomous-vehicle processor. It is a leading choice among today’s global automakers, truckmakers and mobility providers, and delivers up to 254 trillion operations per second of compute power. Pebble will feature this scalable supercomputer in each Pebble Flow travel trailer, making it the most advanced RV on the market. Production will start before the end of 2024.

 

[buckets0fun]

A single axle 6200lb gvw camper trailer is pretty heavy?

that’s massive. Look to tire sizes for that load. Or axles for that weight.