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FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

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The #3 ground is a bit big, but it's not a hazard in any way (as long as the box's lugs are rated for #3).

I added a larger lug for the Grn because it wouldnt fit the existing ground lug holes. I just used one of the ground screws to hold it down. I was a little unsure of this but it seems very secure.

That looks good and should be safe, looks like you might need a new ground lug for the 14-50, or are the wires covering up an unused spot?

Can I not use the ground lug on the right side?

When you put the 14-50 wiring in, you may want to square it off a bit more into the corners of the box with 90 degree bends.

That #3 is difficult stuff to bend and tame. I like a wiring perfectionist!
 
Can the 1-1/4 pvc conduit for the #2 THHN electrical wires be run into the bottom of the TL412CP? The data sheet seems to imply it is a top feed only panel. The datasheet also seems to imply the largest wire it can accept is #4. It also appears that that panel does not ship with a ground buss. Am I reading the datasheet correctly?
 
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Can the 1-1/4 pvc conduit for the #2 THHN electrical wires be run into the bottom of the TL412CP? The data sheet seems to imply it is a top feed only panel. The datasheet also seems to imply the largest wire it can accept is #4. It also appears that that panel does not ship with a ground buss. Am I reading the datasheet correctly?

The panel is top or bottom feed depending upon mounting. For bottom-feed, you simply invert the entire panel and cover (breakers on upper left instead of lower right). For branch circuits there are top & side cut-outs and one bottom cut-out (that's the one that will feed my HPWC).

I think you're looking at the part of the datasheet that says "all holes rated for 14-4", that's for the neutral buss. Main lugs are rated for 6 AWG to 2/0 AWG. It comes with ground buss installed if you order as TL412CT, or you can get the ground buss kit (TGL1) and install it in the panel separately.

There are two large lugs on the neutral bus, one for your feeder and the other works well for your #2 or #3 that feeds the HPWC; there are alternating holes on the neutral bus for the #6 required for a 14-50, larger ones accept #4 and smaller ones accept #8.

Catalog is here, see page 1-30 for the wiring diagram.
 
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I added two questions today -- one on paralleling multiple circuits to get a faster charge (spurred by the other thread), and one on using the easy-240 devices to combine two 120V opposite-leg circuits to get a single 240V load.
 
Guh. I just assumed that my professional electricians knew what they were doing (most expensive firm in town) -- told them to put in a NEMA 14-50 on a 50 amp breaker to plan for a 40 amp continuous load. They probably do know what they're doing.
 
Guh. I just assumed that my professional electricians knew what they were doing (most expensive firm in town) -- told them to put in a NEMA 14-50 on a 50 amp breaker to plan for a 40 amp continuous load. They probably do know what they're doing.

Most electricians will know what to do, although there was one example here on TMC late last year where an electrician had used the wrong gauge wire (8/3 Romex can't be used on a 50A circuit). Small-town electricians may not have seen a charging load this heavy... most EVSE equipment is much smaller. That's why it pays to give them Tesla's sheets.
 
I updated the 125A subpanel question to include the caveats on using a 125A panel with an HPWC + 14-50R. Technically, you cannot have both an HPWC and a 14-50R charging at the same time on a 125A panel or through a 125A breaker, because when sized for continuous loads, it must be rated at 150A or more.
 
I am probably entering unnecessary paranoia phase but all this reading about load sizes and fried utility equipment and the like has me just a little bit lost and worried.

My home was built in 2002, has 2-200 Amp main panels in the basement that sit side by side. Does this mean I have 400 Amp service, or 200 Amp service coming into the house? And if I only have 200 Amp service, does this 40 Amp continuous load get me to a place where I need to worry about the total capacity of my home electrical system?

I know the real solution to this is to do a load calculation. I attempted one and only reached 38,400va = 160 amp required after adding the EV load, but 1) I'm not positive I've filled it out correctly, and 2) I think I may well be overreacting to a 0.001% chance that there's any issue, and don't want to wasted the time and money on calling back a licensed electrician to do the calc for me if I really don't need to.

Thanks all!

PS: Flasher thank you for all your time and effort here, your knowledge has been invaluable on TMC for countless visitors I am certain.
 
I am probably entering unnecessary paranoia phase but all this reading about load sizes and fried utility equipment and the like has me just a little bit lost and worried.

Safety first and be prepared. As mentioned in the FAQ - when the rules are followed, everything is reasonably safe. That doesn't mean incidents won't happen, though. My parents' home was built in the mid 1880's. It has about 3 sets of electrical infrastructure in it, from the early DC power days (the blacksmith shop operated a steam-driven generator that served local homes and businesses), to the early standard 4-branch-fuse 60A main/40A range panel, to the more modern 100A breaker panel installed in the early 1980's. Their garage has only a single 20A branch circuit. Prep work will have to be done if they want to consider anything near 10 kW charging.

My home was built in 2002, has 2-200 Amp main panels in the basement that sit side by side. Does this mean I have 400 Amp service, or 200 Amp service coming into the house? And if I only have 200 Amp service, does this 40 Amp continuous load get me to a place where I need to worry about the total capacity of my home electrical system?

You have 400A service if you have 2 200A panels, they both have 200A main breakers, and one doesn't connect into the other. This is the typical way that 400A service is installed in new homes nowadays.

I know the real solution to this is to do a load calculation. I attempted one and only reached 38,400va = 160 amp required after adding the EV load, but 1) I'm not positive I've filled it out correctly, and 2) I think I may well be overreacting to a 0.001% chance that there's any issue, and don't want to wasted the time and money on calling back a licensed electrician to do the calc for me if I really don't need to.

Load calculations help you get to a target. It's not required that you get it precisely. Just make sure you've included your load.

Most electricians, upon reaching a 150A load calculation or greater, will simply install 400A service because we know that loads have grown considerably over the past 20 years and we'll see them continue.

PS: Flasher thank you for all your time and effort here, your knowledge has been invaluable on TMC for countless visitors I am certain.

Happy to share my experience, just as I know others do too. I have a list of heroes on TMC. :)
 
You have 400A service if you have 2 200A panels, they both have 200A main breakers, and one doesn't connect into the other. This is the typical way that 400A service is installed in new homes nowadays.

FYI, that wouldn't be allowed in Ontario. We require a single 400 amp main service disconnect. Whatever you do downstream of that (within code) is fine, but we will not allow paralleled 200 amp services. (Note: it is not common in Ontario to have a main service disconnect at the meter as it is in some US jurisdictions. If there is a 400 amp main disconnect outside at the meter, then the two 200 amp panels would be okay).
 
FYI, that wouldn't be allowed in Ontario. We require a single 400 amp main service disconnect. Whatever you do downstream of that (within code) is fine, but we will not allow paralleled 200 amp services. (Note: it is not common in Ontario to have a main service disconnect at the meter as it is in some US jurisdictions. If there is a 400 amp main disconnect outside at the meter, then the two 200 amp panels would be okay).

It varies by jurisdiction here too. Some places require a single disconnect, others just follow the NEC's 6-disconnect limitation. I've seen the same limitation, but in most of the US 2 service panels will fly.
 
Probably getting a little into the weeds here. But here it goes. I want to put a contactor behind my NEMA 14-50 plug that closes only between 11pm and 7am. I can get all the controls sorted out myself. My question is do I need a 4 pole breaker? Or can I use a 2 pole breaker and only break the two hot lines? Or would a 3 pole breaker be a minimum (2 hot and neutral)? I would hard wire the others to the socket.

I know I am basically starting an EVSE project, and I will probably head down that road with an open EVSE. But I don't have a lot of practice with actually dealing with electricity. On paper I am fairly decent, but the actual hardware is not something I know lots about. I sort of want to work out all the components needed on my own so I really understand how the EVSE works, and not just assemble a bunch of black boxes. And I realize that an EVSE really only needs 2 hots and a ground so only a 3 pole breaker would be needed it it.

And I am going to wire this thing to code, but let me know if it is really unsafe to do this, or just bad practice (and could be unsafe).

Thanks in advance.
 
Probably getting a little into the weeds here. But here it goes. I want to put a contactor behind my NEMA 14-50 plug that closes only between 11pm and 7am. I can get all the controls sorted out myself. My question is do I need a 4 pole breaker? Or can I use a 2 pole breaker and only break the two hot lines? Or would a 3 pole breaker be a minimum (2 hot and neutral)? I would hard wire the others to the socket.

I have been told that modern practice does not switch neutrals; if the neutral disconnects and the hot doesn't for some reason, it creates quite a dangerous situation. 1920s practice did switch neutrals. Nobody ever switches ground (you mustn't). But I'm no electrician, and this is not professional advice.

Anyway, the typical household 240 V circuit is push-pulling off of the two hots, each of which has 120 V. Which means the neutral isn't actually being used except for safety. (It's present in the NEMA 14-50 RV socket so as to allow for 120 V loads as well as 240 V loads.) The question of switching the neutral then becomes a question about failure modes; whether you want stray current to go to neutral or to ground. I don't know!

Since you're putting in a switch, you're going to need a relay (or something similar) so that you can power the switch controls separately. Then you start looking up the rated ability of relays... all quite complicated. I woudn't do it myself.

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I am probably entering unnecessary paranoia phase but all this reading about load sizes and fried utility equipment and the like has me just a little bit lost and worried.

My home was built in 2002, has 2-200 Amp main panels in the basement that sit side by side. Does this mean I have 400 Amp service, or 200 Amp service coming into the house?
Dual 200 amp service. (Edit: this means you have two separate 200 amp services. One can go black while the other remains on.)
And if I only have 200 Amp service, does this 40 Amp continuous load get me to a place where I need to worry about the total capacity of my home electrical system?

I know the real solution to this is to do a load calculation. I attempted one and only reached 38,400va = 160 amp required after adding the EV load,
That's within the limits of a 200 amp service. Barely.

However, for safety and comfort, you want to make sure your two panels are balanced; you want roughly half the load on one panel and roughly half the load on the other panel. So you want to work out the individual circuit loads to make sure that they're split up "evenly", rather than putting all the heavy loads on one side and leaving the other panel underloaded. A good rule of thumb is to look at the big loads first, and not worry too much about circuits which only have a couple of light bulbs on them. In a typical house, a few circuits are carrying most of the load and the rest are barely doing any work (this isn't good design, but it seems to be hard to avoid).

Edit: if you installed two electric car charging circuits intended to be used simultaneously, for instance, you would most likely want to put one on each panel. My parents recently had their service upgraded from 200 amp to 400 amp (dual 200 amp), and we had the circuits redistributed between panels; but a lazy electrician may simply add the new circuits to the new panel only after the other one has completely filled up.
 
Probably getting a little into the weeds here. But here it goes. I want to put a contactor behind my NEMA 14-50 plug that closes only between 11pm and 7am. I can get all the controls sorted out myself. My question is do I need a 4 pole breaker? Or can I use a 2 pole breaker and only break the two hot lines? Or would a 3 pole breaker be a minimum (2 hot and neutral)? I would hard wire the others to the socket.

Because breakers only attach to the hot leg buss, you can't switch anything but the hots. Two pole breaker is all you need, and a two-pole contactor is all you'll need. The easiest way to do this is to purchase a contactor with a 120vac primary, controlled by a digital timer (or even a cheap lamp timer :)

(OT just a bit: one of my first fun shock moments was when I was about 15 years old, in a house wired in the 1940's with push-button light switches. On the porch light, they switched the neutral instead of the hot. So there I was... on an aluminum ladder... holding a stainless steel staple gun... stapling up Christmas lights that were plugged into the socket (but the switch was off). Staple went through the hot wire and it shot me off the ladder. Not pleasant.)

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Anyway, the typical household 240 V circuit is push-pulling off of the two hots, each of which has 120 V. Which means the neutral isn't actually being used except for safety. (It's present in the NEMA 14-50 RV socket so as to allow for 120 V loads as well as 240 V loads.) The question of switching the neutral then becomes a question about failure modes; whether you want stray current to go to neutral or to ground. I don't know!

Define "stray current". :) The grounding conductor ("ground") is only there to permit enough current to flow in a fault situation to trip the breaker, and to prevent your body from being the primary path for current in a fault situation. The groundED conductor ("neutral") is there to carry the return current for the unbalanced 120v loads. You want both there, always.

Since you're putting in a switch, you're going to need a relay (or something similar) so that you can power the switch controls separately. Then you start looking up the rated ability of relays... all quite complicated. I woudn't do it myself.

This one is one of the easier ones. Primary contacts rated 120VAC < 2A or so, secondary contacts rated for 240VAC, 50A. Control it with a lamp timer on a 120VAC circuit.
 
I am assuming this is to make sure your car only charges during off-peak times for lower rates?

Why not just wait for the software solution that is likely right around the corner.

Some of the software guys already reverse engineered the app protocol and one guy even did create his own automated charge timer using that ... (See Model S REST API)
and I would bet we are only a month or two away from a Tesla update (either app or in car directly) where a high quality solution will be provided directly from Tesla...

Probably getting a little into the weeds here. But here it goes. I want to put a contactor behind my NEMA 14-50 plug that closes only between 11pm and 7am. I can get all the controls sorted out myself. My question is do I need a 4 pole breaker? Or can I use a 2 pole breaker and only break the two hot lines? Or would a 3 pole breaker be a minimum (2 hot and neutral)? I would hard wire the others to the socket.

I know I am basically starting an EVSE project, and I will probably head down that road with an open EVSE. But I don't have a lot of practice with actually dealing with electricity. On paper I am fairly decent, but the actual hardware is not something I know lots about. I sort of want to work out all the components needed on my own so I really understand how the EVSE works, and not just assemble a bunch of black boxes. And I realize that an EVSE really only needs 2 hots and a ground so only a 3 pole breaker would be needed it it.

And I am going to wire this thing to code, but let me know if it is really unsafe to do this, or just bad practice (and could be unsafe).

Thanks in advance.
 
FlasherZ-thanks for this great resource. A question for you. I'm running Romex 6/3 plus ground to a 14-50 outlet in an attached garage. The breaker box is in the garage. From the breaker box the wire goes vertically into the wall, then comes out of the wall (via a metal box), into flexible metal conduit, up the wall, turns 90 degrees to go across the ceiling, turns 90 degrees to go down another wall, out of the conduit back into the wall (via another metal box) and to the outlet. Is it okay for that wire to be in the conduit? I get from your FAQs that it can be, as long as it is not outside. A friend got advice that the Romex should not be in conduit due to heat build up and that the sheath on the wiring is sufficient to protect it from damage. Putting the wiring in the wall and ceiling is not a practical option, too many joists to cross as there is living space above. On one wall the wiring in conduit is within 7' of the slab, though it doesn't have to be (it could go into the wall higher up). Thanks for your advice.
 
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