What wire to buy for 30 amp 240v circuit

[Watts_Up]

Looking at some comments on various forums, something that could subject of interpretation
is the wording of the 2023 NEC 210.8 (A) about GFCI protection for Dwelling Units:

All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the following locations​

should have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:​

​

(1) Bathrooms​

(2) Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level and not intended as habitacle room​

(3) Outdoors​

(4) Crawl spaces at or below grade level​

(5) Basements​

In the case of an house located at a level well above the street level and storm drains height,
and having a garage accessible from the street using a positive inclined driveway,
and with no history of flooding, could be considered "above" and not "at" or "below" grade level,
thus been exempt of the GFCI protection requirement.

 

[ATPMSD]

In the case of an house located at a level well above the street level and storm drains height,
and having a garage accessible from the street using a positive inclined driveway,
and with no history of flooding, could be considered "above" and not "at" or "below" grade level,
thus been exempt of the GFCI protection requirement.

Interesting thought, but the code states at or below grade and “grade” is a well defined term. Also, a properly built home will, and is required, to always have the soil/dirt/concrete paths/driveways fashioned to ensure water moves away from the home. I find your logic interesting and to be very creative, but I don’t think it wll pass muster.

 

[Rocky_H]

Looking at some comments on various forums, something that could subject of interpretation
is the wording of the 2023 NEC 210.8 (A) about GFCI protection for Dwelling Units:

But here's the thing--there are two separate issues. That stuff you are quoting is from the much later release that far expanded the use of GFCI breakers to MANY more circuits.

What is not the subject of interpretation is that in the 2017 NEC code, they added this in section 625 that left it absolutely iron-clad that said any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging an electric car must have GFCI. Period. There is no grey area or lack of clarity on that one.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Looking at some comments on various forums, something that could subject of interpretation
is the wording of the 2023 NEC 210.8 (A) about GFCI protection for Dwelling Units:

All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the following locations​

should have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:​

​

(1) Bathrooms​

(2) Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level and not intended as habitacle room​

(3) Outdoors​

(4) Crawl spaces at or below grade level​

(5) Basements​

In the case of an house located at a level well above the street level and storm drains height,
and having a garage accessible from the street using a positive inclined driveway,
and with no history of flooding, could be considered "above" and not "at" or "below" grade level,
thus been exempt of the GFCI protection requirement.

I interpret that section as:

(Garages) and (also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level and not intended as habitable room)

As such doesn't matter if the garage is above grade level (plus by default garages are not regarded as habitable rooms).

Not as you seem to interpret it:

(Garages and also accessory buildings) that that have a floor located at or below grade level and not intended as habitable room.

 

[terranx]

What is not the subject of interpretation is that in the 2017 NEC code, they added this in section 625 that left it absolutely iron-clad that said any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging an electric car must have GFCI. Period. There is no grey area or lack of clarity on that one.

As far as the inspector needs to know, I installed the outlet for a welder.

 

[davewill]

As far as the inspector needs to know, I installed the outlet for a welder.

That might work (and it might not if they insist on GFCI because it's in a garage), but lying on your permit application and to the inspector is hardly a recommended practice.

 

[terranx]

That might work (and it might not if they insist on GFCI because it's in a garage), but lying on your permit application and to the inspector is hardly a recommended practice.

How many of us really bother with permits for these things? I don’t know of a single person who did in real life. I try to keep things code compliant for safety reasons - but some of the more asinine requirements like this GFCI one and the requirement to have afci everywhere I don’t bother with.

 

[ATPMSD]

How many of us really bother with permits for these things?

Your home, your call, your risk.

 

[terranx]

Your home, your call, your risk.

Seriously though, how many bother? I know for certain the vast majority of electricians around here don’t pull permits for minor electrical work. And I certainly don’t bother when I do the work myself.