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FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

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I used 3-3-3-5 SER cable to go from my main panel to a subpanel (cable was behind drywall), but ran conduit and #3 THHN from the sub-panel to the Wall Connector. Cost was about $3.50 / ft for the conduit and THHN. SER was about $6 / ft but I only needed 6 feet to get to the sub-panel. I would just use conduit for your installation.
I was going to make a similar sort of suggestion. Go ahead and run the cable the way you want, but terminate it in either a junction box, or better a box with a cutoff switch, then use a short bit of conduit and wire from there into the wall connector.
 
I was going to make a similar sort of suggestion. Go ahead and run the cable the way you want, but terminate it in either a junction box, or better a box with a cutoff switch, then use a short bit of conduit and wire from there into the wall connector.
This. NEC requires a disconnect if >60 amps anyway, so your switch is the perfect place to splice from SER to THHN in conduit.
 
This. NEC requires a disconnect if >60 amps anyway, so your switch is the perfect place to splice from SER to THHN in conduit.
Great point! Thanks! In that case it would make sense to go THHN and conduit all the way.
Another question: does the placement of the switch relative to the wall connector matter? Any difference if it's under the wall connector or off to the side?

Thanks
 
Great point! Thanks! In that case it would make sense to go THHN and conduit all the way.
Another question: does the placement of the switch relative to the wall connector matter? Any difference if it's under the wall connector or off to the side?

Thanks
I don't have my copy of the code handy, but I think it's just "in sight". You could run whatever is cheapest to the switch (even 1/0 AL SER), then Cu THHN in conduit, switch to HPWC
 
Great point! Thanks! In that case it would make sense to go THHN and conduit all the way.
Another question: does the placement of the switch relative to the wall connector matter? Any difference if it's under the wall connector or off to the side?

Thanks
Most installations I have seen on a regular flat wall have the disconnect to the left of the Wall Connector. A straight conduit exits the left side of the wall connector directly into the disconnect box.
 
I don't have my copy of the code handy, but I think it's just "in sight". You could run whatever is cheapest to the switch (even 1/0 AL SER), then Cu THHN in conduit, switch to HPWC
Hmmm... In that case 2-2-2-4 Al SER would be really cheap. But doesn't the HPWC manual say to use "only copper conductors" (page 7)? Or would that apply only after the disconnect switch?
 
Hmmm... In that case 2-2-2-4 Al SER would be really cheap. But doesn't the HPWC manual say to use "only copper conductors" (page 7)? Or would that apply only after the disconnect switch?
2 ga Al is rated for 100A @ 90C. If you want to use Al SER, consider 1/0, which is rated for 100A at 60C, will have less voltage drop, and isn't much more expensive (~$1/ft). Home Depot lists 2-2-2-4 @ $1.69/ft and 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 @ $2.74/ft.

The terminals in the HPWC are rated for Cu only, but that only restricts what you connect to those terminals. So you'd need to run Cu from the disconnect to the HPWC, but no such restriction on the input to the disconnect (assuming it is rated for Cu/Al)

@Solarguy has some nice pictures and writeup here - Post Pictures of HPWC Installations (Residential and Commercial) He used 1Ga Cu to feed Square D DU323 100amp disconnects that he purchased used off ebay - square d du323 | eBay

I don't know if the DU323 can handle 1/0, or if it is Al rated.
 
2 ga Al is rated for 100A @ 90C. If you want to use Al SER, consider 1/0, which is rated for 100A at 60C, will have less voltage drop, and isn't much more expensive (~$1/ft). Home Depot lists 2-2-2-4 @ $1.69/ft and 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 @ $2.74/ft.

The terminals in the HPWC are rated for Cu only, but that only restricts what you connect to those terminals. So you'd need to run Cu from the disconnect to the HPWC, but no such restriction on the input to the disconnect (assuming it is rated for Cu/Al)

@Solarguy has some nice pictures and writeup here - Post Pictures of HPWC Installations (Residential and Commercial) He used 1Ga Cu to feed Square D DU323 100amp disconnects that he purchased used off ebay - square d du323 | eBay

I don't know if the DU323 can handle 1/0, or if it is Al rated.

The DU323 is rated for AL and can accept wire size down to 1 gauge.

The Square D spec says:

  • Terminal lug data: one #12-1 aluminum or #14-1 copper
 
The DU323 is rated for AL and can accept wire size down to 1 gauge.

The Square D spec says:

  • Terminal lug data: one #12-1 aluminum or #14-1 copper
With that much aluminum, how do you keep the connection tight? It must expand and contract like crazy. Is there something in the DU323 to keep the connection tight? Or do you just re-torque every month or so.
 
With that much aluminum, how do you keep the connection tight? It must expand and contract like crazy. Is there something in the DU323 to keep the connection tight? Or do you just re-torque every month or so.
Here's running copper, IIRC. Although it's not really any different than the Al feed to the main lugs of 99% of the houses in the US.
 
With that much aluminum, how do you keep the connection tight? It must expand and contract like crazy. Is there something in the DU323 to keep the connection tight? Or do you just re-torque every month or so.
I'm running copper on my install but I due have AL from the meter pan to all four of my main breaker panels. Although none of the connections need tightening on a regular basis it is good to check all CU and AL connections from time to time. I'm doing mine every 3 to 5 years but frankly most people never do it.
 
I'm thinking of invoking Rule 2 at PG&E delivering only 214 Volts (AC) to my home (utility meter) and 220 Volts to my neighbor (utility meter) while I'm charging my car and using the clothes dryer and a few electric heaters when the sun isn't shining (mostly a weekend event due to off-peak rate plans -- during a simple load testing I did last night, I peaked at 17.7kW), but if I'm seeing the current revision and quotation of Rule 2 by PG&E and others (i.e., the lack thereof), it looks like not only is charging a Tesla considered unsupported, but that because of solar & wind and EV's, Rule 2 is in flux, waiting for a new connected EV utility standard to be made (such as PowerWall 2 charging cars, solar panels charging cars, and utilities charging cars, with or without variable supply-load programming). This has given me pause, because if I invoke Rule 2, then PG&E may cite the segments of Rule 2 against me that it can, and then make a rule that is otherwise in flux and mostly irrelevant today suddenly re-enforced when it doesn't make sense and even get a restriction placed on our account and my EV charging.

The problem is I currently draw 11kW to charge the car plus other house draws, and I want to eventually enable drawing 19kW for car charging, but asking for that would put me at odds of the utility's language in Rule 2. I'm guessing that the neighborhood PIG supplying my segment of 11 houses is 100kVA, so could support either 9kW per home or about 4 cars being charged at a full 19kW at once, but not more, and that is why PG&E would be loathe to move me to a less far PIG or increase the number of PIGs (they look like a few thousand dollars, plus labor and overhead, or about $6K including waste, well under their recent $10K increase in our bill during our solar system lifetime due to NEM2 rule changes over NEM1 for our solar panels, intended to supply money for grid improvements).

Here's the outdated but nominally current stuff: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_RULES_2.pdf

Here's the excerpts of PG&E's Rule 2:

Sheet 4: 240 service has minimum 228 Volts and maximum 240 Volts (or 252 Volts for Class B).

Sheet 8: "For any single-phase service, the maximum demand as determined by PG&E is limited to the capability of a 100 kVa transformer unless otherwise approved by PG&E."

Sheet 15: "PG&E reserves the right to refuse to serve new loads or to continue to supply existing loads of a size or character that may be detrimental to PG&E's operations or to the service of its customers. Any customer who operates or plans to operate any equipment such as, but not limited to, pumps, welders, saw mill apparatus, furnaces, compressors or other equipment where the use of electricity is intermittent, causes intolerable voltage fluctuations, or otherwise causes intolerable service interference, must reasonably limit such interference or restrict the use of such equipment upon request by PG&E. The customer is required either to provide and pay for whatever corrective measures are necessary to limit the interference to a level established by PG&E as reasonable, or avoid the use of such equipment, whether or not the equipment has previously caused interference."

"Any customer causing service interference to others must diligently pursue and take timely corrective action after being given notice and a reasonable time to do so by PG&E. If the customer does not take timely corrective action, or continues to operate the equipment causing the interference without restriction or limit, PG&E may, without liability, after giving five days written notice to customer, either install and activate control devices on its facilities that will temporarily prevent the detrimental operation, or discontinue electric service until a suitable permanent solution is provided by the customer and it is operational."


Has anybody tried to invoke Rule 2 at PG&E to get better service and been bitten by the blowback from PG&E telling them to stop it, to stop charging EV's at those rates and in fact enforce worse service than they already had? Since for normal commutes it takes me the entire time from the beginning of the EV low rate weekday period to the time I have to get in my car and start driving to charge it, reducing my charging speed would end up costing me a lot more due to higher cost periods, turning driving a Tesla's energy use from being less expensive than gas by about 2/3rds to being more than 3 times the cost of gas.
 
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Honestly, why get your shorts in a knot over this? You already have 19 kW charging, that's really fast for home charging.

If you do want to pursue it, a FRIENDLY inquiry is probably all you need to do. Don't say a word about Rule 2 or anything legalistic at all, or else the PG&E lawyers will get involved, and no one wants that. Just say you've noticed your voltage sagging and could they check into it? Others on this forum have done so with very good results (with different utilities).
 
Honestly, why get your shorts in a knot over this? You already have 19 kW charging, that's really fast for home charging.

If you do want to pursue it, a FRIENDLY inquiry is probably all you need to do. Don't say a word about Rule 2 or anything legalistic at all, or else the PG&E lawyers will get involved, and no one wants that. Just say you've noticed your voltage sagging and could they check into it? Others on this forum have done so with very good results (with different utilities).
Very good advice. I don't know what I was thinking.

I already have 11kW charging. I was thinking later I might want to upgrade to 17kW charging, but my HPWC tells me that's impossible. So, it's not an urgent thing, but it is something I occasionally consider, and since the only problem I've confirmed in the electrical system so far is the low voltage, that's kind of my next step.
 
What is the recommended way to wire two Wall Connectors for load sharing? Should each have a separate power feed from the sub panel, or should they actually share the same circuit as implied on p. 6? If they share the same circuit, what is the correct way to wire the power feed? Clearly the Wall Connector is not designed to literally daisy chain the power wiring internally, so would a junction box be used?

p. 6: Load Sharing
The Wall Connector provides the capability to
wire 4 Wall Connectors to a single circuit,...

p. 29:
... Wall Connector to Wall Connector
communication allows you to split the
maximum available load over a maximum of 4
Wall Connectors. The wire used for this local
network must share the main power cable
conduit or be housed in a separate conduit.

You can connect the Wall Connectors in series
in a daisy chain configuration.
 
They are meant to share the same (preferably 100 amp) circuit breaker. Use a junction box to split the cable into two feeds, one for each wall connector. Use a 3 port Polaris connector or similar on each wire. Ground the junction box. Hire an electrician to do all this. Good luck.
 
They are meant to share the same (preferably 100 amp) circuit breaker. Use a junction box to split the cable into two feeds, one for each wall connector. Use a 3 port Polaris connector or similar on each wire. Ground the junction box. Hire an electrician to do all this. Good luck.
You can also run 100A to a sub panel in the garage, then 2 100A breakers to feed the HPWC's from the sub. I'm pretty sure @FlasherZ's FAQ covers this.
 
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What is the recommended way to wire two Wall Connectors for load sharing? Should each have a separate power feed from the sub panel, or should they actually share the same circuit as implied on p. 6? If they share the same circuit, what is the correct way to wire the power feed? Clearly the Wall Connector is not designed to literally daisy chain the power wiring internally, so would a junction box be used?

p. 6: Load Sharing
The Wall Connector provides the capability to
wire 4 Wall Connectors to a single circuit,...

p. 29:
... Wall Connector to Wall Connector
communication allows you to split the
maximum available load over a maximum of 4
Wall Connectors. The wire used for this local
network must share the main power cable
conduit or be housed in a separate conduit.

You can connect the Wall Connectors in series
in a daisy chain configuration.
Here's where this has been discussed before, and answered by @FlasherZ in many various ways:

New Wall Connector :)
New Wall Connector :)
New Wall Connector :)

His information is far better than mine. Before I found it, I wrote this (I defer to his writings though):
  1. Some places require a breaker for each one. That's one 100 amp breaker for each one.
  2. They only need 100 amps aggregate, so one technique is to put up a subpanel which is loaded with the up to 4 HPWC circuits with 100 amp breakers, and that subpanel itself is fed by a 100 amp breaker. Note that most subpanels that are rated for 100 amps are not rated for 100 amp circuits, so you will usually have to get at least a 125 amp panel as your 100 amp breaker panel.
  3. For installation and maintenance, it's better to have each HPWC with its own breaker.
  4. You can locate the HPWC's a medium distance from each other and don't have to share the same actual circuit. It still regulates the load so that your load calcs fit within the limitations of the electrical system.
  5. Almost all places require a shutoff reachable from the HPWC. By far the cheapest way to do that is to put up a cheap ($50) 125 amp subpanel with a 100 amp breaker inside it feeding the HPWC. This can serve as your breaker and shutoff. You can label the breaker and then even have other breakers going to other HPWC's there, and if those HPWC's aren't within reach of that breaker subpanel, they can also get their own cheap ($50) 125 amp subpanel with a 100 amp breaker in it. In this manner, you can spend $6 per breaker and $40 to $50 per subpanel for the required shutoffs, and an HPWC may have two, three, four, or even five 100 amp breakers leading to it, but they're basically just to be a cheap way to follow code safely.
So, "share a circuit" is more of a symbolic load sharing message than it is a practice. I'd go so far as to say if your design requires sharing a circuit without having a breaker for each HPWC, that you've probably done something wrong, and should examine it, find out what you did wrong, and redesign it. Having said that, upstream it certainly shares a circuit, as do we all (the great power circuit of the sun, the moon, the core of the Earth, asteroids, and mineral power plants such as nuclear (common) or basic chemical (rare), and then all our utilities which are mostly electrically interconnected). So, I don't really know what anyone means by "share", unless it's made slightly more specific.
 
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