Express Supercharger?

[nwdiver]

How would you get to the express charger if there is someone ahead of you that is waiting for a full-charge?

I would imagine there would have to be some small level of coordination. If an express lane opens and the ~20 cars infront of you don't start moving... it's yours if you want it...

On the flip side I could see someone with $$$ thinking 'screw it... I'll pay $0.40/min to not wait in line...' that could be an issue...

 

[ecobon]

I would imagine there would have to be some small level of coordination. If an express lane opens and the ~20 cars infront of you don't start moving... it's yours if you want it...

On the flip side I could see someone with $$$ thinking 'screw it... I'll pay $0.40/min to not wait in line...' that could be an issue...

That would work if there are a few cars ahead of you. If the first 10 cars passed on the express charger, the 11th car would never make it there or see it open. Then a charger would remain vacant during a peak period. But, to be fair I'm sure most people would use the 15 minute charge as opposed to waiting so in most cases I can see only a couple of cars actually passing it up.

 

[JeffK]

I believe a better approach using only current technology at current charge rates is to only allow a charge of 80% unless they are in a software limited 60kWh version. This way, not only can they make it to the next supercharger, but the charging rate would be the highest for the most users. It's that 80-100% that takes the most time. Psychologically some people crave 100% when they don't necessarily need to.

To me, the most efficient way to use the superchargers is to by delivering the highest charge rate the majority of the time serving vehicles.

An alternative to this would be that you program your destination and if your destination has a charger of any kind. If so then you are allotted a certain battery percentage with buffer to make sure you get where you need to go. This could be more problematic though.

Either way, holidays may always cause an issue unless <10 min charging becomes a reality.

 

[ecobon]

Sorry to all. I used our ICE for Holiday travel. Superchargers in CA or nearby just don't cut it for me. It's simply too frustrating the past two times I took a trip out to CA. I can only see it getting worse.

I still like the express lane sentiments and if they could pull that off, it would longer and retractable cables along with a different path that is pull-through (drive-thru) type in nature. Maybe lanes on both sides of the charger going in opposite directions? So it can service one car and then one on the other side *immediately* afterwards?

 

[JeffK]

Sorry to all. I used our ICE for Holiday travel.

...but, but every time an ICE starts up an angel loses his wings..

 

[gavine]

How would you get to the express charger if there is someone ahead of you that is waiting for a full-charge? Will there be extra incentives to use an Express Charger e.g. no credits taken away during peak periods for 2017+ delivered vehicles?

The idea is that there shouldn't be a line 20-deep when there's an express-only charger there. It is supposed to mitigate the line.

 

[gavine]

Many of the higher commercial charge rates are possible due to higher voltages... not higher amps. 350kW vs 135kW is ~7x as much heat. Tesla will either need a higher voltage pack, liquid cooled cables or superconductors... or all three.

I had read a while back that Tesla was developing liquid-cooled cables. They are supposed to be thinner too (easier to handle).

 

[TrafficEng]

Good discussion. However, before resorting to negative reinforcement ('punishment') like charging for charging to change behavior, let's start off with 'good old information'.

I saw at the Tesla factory their display of number of stalls occupied in each SC location. So Tesla have the information on the real time occupancy at each supercharger location. It would seem not too complicated to get that information into the car (when you click on the SC in nav?). Show number of stalls currently occupied, and average occupancy for the past hour.

This would really help us users make better decisions; make us feel even better about Tesla; and provide 'load leveling' without Tesla having to invest more $$$

 

[JeffK]

Good discussion. However, before resorting to negative reinforcement ('punishment') like charging for charging to change behavior, let's start off with 'good old information'.

I saw at the Tesla factory their display of number of stalls occupied in each SC location. So Tesla have the information on the real time occupancy at each supercharger location. It would seem not too complicated to get that information into the car (when you click on the SC in nav?). Show number of stalls currently occupied, and average occupancy for the past hour.

This would really help us users make better decisions; make us feel even better about Tesla; and provide 'load leveling' without Tesla having to invest more $$$

This has been a requested feature for years, but they are reluctant to do it.
I think this is partially because when investors see unused stations they might consider it a waste of money. During the holidays that unused station might be horribly backed up, but otherwise barely used during the rest of the year.

I believe it'll be a much greater likelihood that such data sharing will become a reality after the Model 3 when they can clearly show use for all the charging locations.

 

[jbcarioca]

It seems to me far more practical to have mobile superchargers that can move from location to location based on specific events or holiday peaks. of course, very dense populations will require much more dense coverage anyway. We might as well accept that what is California today will be many high traffic areas 18 months from now. Tesla obviously wants to fill gaps and increase Supercharger density as well as speed up Supercharging. The fundamental question is about priorities and practical economic principles. Frankly, much of our current problem, IMO emanates directly from the "free for life" deal. That was probably necessary when it began, but now there are lots of charging options, including Destination Chargers, so some rationing must happen to avoid boorish behavior. Were it not for the boors we'd have really rare overcrowding, but boors will always be with us...

 

[Saghost]

It seems to me far more practical to have mobile superchargers that can move from location to location based on specific events or holiday peaks. of course, very dense populations will require much more dense coverage anyway. We might as well accept that what is California today will be many high traffic areas 18 months from now. Tesla obviously wants to fill gaps and increase Supercharger density as well as speed up Supercharging. The fundamental question is about priorities and practical economic principles. Frankly, much of our current problem, IMO emanates directly from the "free for life" deal. That was probably necessary when it began, but now there are lots of charging options, including Destination Chargers, so some rationing must happen to avoid boorish behavior. Were it not for the boors we'd have really rare overcrowding, but boors will always be with us...

This is an interesting idea, but wouldn't the holiday peaks hit together everywhere on the same day?

The other problem is that you need a serious grid connection for your mobile charger - not something that happens easily or casually.

 

[EV-lutioin]

It is very hard to build out infrastructure designed to accommodate the busiest days because infrastructure is generally designed to handle an average day. Just like lines at the store to return your gifts, or trying to get a table for two on New Year's Eve, during the holidays you just have to deal with a little waiting. With that said, I appreciate the holiday rush Supercharger problem solving ideas.

 

[jbcarioca]

This is an interesting idea, but wouldn't the holiday peaks hit together everywhere on the same day?

The other problem is that you need a serious grid connection for your mobile charger - not something that happens easily or casually.

Some will, but many will not. There are serious infrastructure issues, not to mention cost and logistics. Somehow I think some solutions are possible, including planned augmentation.

 

[TrafficEng]

This has been a requested feature for years, but they are reluctant to do it.
I think this is partially because when investors see unused stations they might consider it a waste of money. During the holidays that unused station might be horribly backed up, but otherwise barely used during the rest of the year.

I believe it'll be a much greater likelihood that such data sharing will become a reality after the Model 3 when they can clearly show use for all the charging locations.

Yeah, who knows how they prioritize development. I can't see the downside to Tesla myself. 'Information is data, in context, made useful'. This would be information which would make the Tesla brand stand out even further ahead...

 

[Zaxxon]

I think if Supercharger V3 is going to become a reality I think this issue will resolve itself eventually. Especially if Model 3 is capable of super supercharging.

Can we please call it superdupercharging? Because that'd be awesome.

 

[ecobon]

The idea is that there shouldn't be a line 20-deep when there's an express-only charger there. It is supposed to mitigate the line.

Yes, but one express lane will only remove 2-3 vehicles per hour so I guess that we won't see lines of 20, but the same situation still can yield lines of 10+ vehicles pretty easily. Better.

 

[EV-lutioin]