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EU Signature Angst
- Thread starter Pilotech
- Start date
Oh yes they did! On many occasions, in many contacts with Tesla-representatives, reservation holders in The Netherlands and Belgium were promised that the reservation sequence would be respected, if you finalized within one month.
Who's talking about idling the plant? Most of us finalized our orders within a few days, and did so months ago. There is a backlog of thousands of orders for Europe, so it's not a matter of idling the plant. It's a matter of producing and delivering cars in order of reservation, so not Sig 4xx first and Sig 1xx a few weeks later (from the same country), which is what's happening. That's breaking a promise.
So you're saying we should have known they were talking bulls**t when they made the promise over and over again? I guess we're naive then, when we thought Tesla as a company did things differently.
I know, it all sounds childish. What's a few weeks difference? Who cares? And it happened to American customers too, so who are we Europeans to complain. But it does leave a bad taste in your mouth.
They can't produce the cars in the exact order all the time as things are likely batched, a certain part is short or a particular car has a problem and needs extra time. There will always be some variability. Add to that shipping to multiple countries and things will be even more out of order. If production 1,000 gets delivered prior to Sig 1 then they have some explaining to do. The only way to keep everyone happy is to ship one car at a time and wait for confirmation of delivery before the next car is delivered. Someone will always be upset about something 'why did Sig 9 get their car before my Sig 8!?'
Let's not get ridiculous. None of the early adaptors, even not the SIG's, did expect that the EuropeanSIG's would be delivered before the US-P's. It was always stated by Tesla that the European deliveries would be later that the US-CAN.
It is obvious, due to homologation, 3phase-charging etc., that the EU-car is not the same as the US-car.
However, this is not valid to prioritize one European country over the other. Differences between the different european countries is not that big.
And I cannot see what Tax-differences has to do with production of the European-cars. (read well : I mean production - not shipment and 'splash-and-dash in Tilburg.)
They certainly did, on paper, and on several occasions !
For strange reasons, some reservations holders were invited earlier than others. I can agree that if somebody does not finalize 'in time' (read 4 weeks), that he will lose his place in the queue. However, in this case, Tesla choose to invite people late. That's not 'our' mistake.
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I could not disagree more with the above statement. "Normal" customers don't buy a first generation vehicle from a startup company who has never mass produced a car... ever. I don't know of many "normal" customers who even know about this car. By "normal", what exactly is your definition? Those who do buy into such a vehicle should expect some bumps in the road. Anyone who puts down $35,000 reservation for a $100,000+ vehicle should be intelligent enough to know what he or she is getting into. Perhaps Tesla is guilty of setting the expectations too high, but if I were plunking down $35,000 for a Sig reservation I would expect to receive a Sig vehicle. I would not expect Tesla to hold up manufacturing the rest of its fleet because of the handful of Sig reservations that were supposed to ship earlier. Any "normal" customer who expected a totally smooth ride from this unproven company simply had their blinders on and are not considering reality.
Also, OP and others are complaining about what Tesla promised, said, etc. How about this... what does it say in your written reservation agreement? How about we look at the agreements you made with Tesla in writing - not what you heard or read on the internet?
Don't be silly.... we are not talking about one number.
We are talking hunderds, no : thousands of numbers.
There are P2300+ with VIN assigned - and P0400- left without notice.
P2300+ will have made his reservation some months ago, P0400- years ago.
Tell me, honestly, does that sound fair ?
Would you call that 'honouring' your clients ?
It might not be fair but that is what is happening with the manufacturing process. Do you think it is personal? I'd imagine they are trying to stick to the reservation order as much as possible.
My point with the example is what you may find infuriating someone one else might find not a big deal. There is no number that will keep everyone happy. There were examples like this with the US where one early Sig car had multiple problems through production and ended up getting delivered after the first few hundred production cars. I don't think Tesla did this out if spite, there was a production issue.
What would be your solution then? What is an acceptable out of order delivery for everyone single customer. Is it 1, 10, 100...? Everyone will draw the line differently. Again, if everyone ordered the exact same car I'd imagine producing and delivering cars in near perfect order would be a breeze. People want different things and we know Tesla batches production of certain thing. The reservation number is a reservation number, not a promise of exact order of delivery.
I agree 2,000 is a very large out of order delivery number. Has that person reached out to Tesla to find out why a VIN hasn't been assigned?
I do not have a problem with that, everybody has the chance to get on the waiting list.
(and I guess the list is first come, first served... at least, I hope.)
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I do not think it's personal - it is clear, as I stated, that countries are prioritized.
There might be a good reason for that : then why does Tesla not communicate this to their customers ?
Well, I don't know about that specific number I'm refering to (I can ask on the forum).
As mentioned, IMHO Tesla should communicate, proactive.
We all are early adaptors, thus it is obvious that Tesla has a lot of credit with us, and we all (that is : most of us) understand that there are bumps on the road.
But we cannot understand why clients are left in vain. ( I know other who forum-members did ask, but got no firm answer.)
I personally did ask, and the answer was : "we first need to produce 500 Sig's, and then 1421 P's" That would be fine with me... but's this is not what is happening...
Good, pro-active communication by Tesla would surely help to take away the irritation.
FYI : have a look at this :
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10726-Belgium-and-the-Netherlands-(Dutch)/page470
text is in Dutch, but pictures speak for themselves.
just to show how big a fan a fellow Belgian reservation holder is.
Indeed, I think just communicating would already go a long way to avoid customers (in most cases fans!) getting pissed off. And it would also stop these kind of topics from popping up. Why can't Tesla simply communicate with its customers? A blog by George B would already do the trick (I hope he's alright; he's been out of the picture for quite some time now).
Just explain to us:
- Why is Tesla producing Norwegian and Swiss cars first? Those cars already have a faster delivery channel (they avoid subassembly in Tilburg, The Netherlands), so it would make more sense to build other European cars first, to cancel out that effect. But instead Tesla decided to build Norwegian and Swiss cars first. Maybe there's a valid reason to do this, like the Tilburg factory not being ready yet. But if you don't inform anyone of that reason, the rest of Europe feels bad.
- Why are later Signatures being built and delivered (well) before earlier Signatures? Is it more efficient to batch them? Are some parts missing? Tell us in a blog and we will understand. But knowing nothing just causes frustration.
- Why has production of all European cars again been delayed for 1-2 months. Homologation issues? Q2-issues? (I know, they wouldn't tell us). But just give people a valid reason and they will understand.
- Why are people not actively being informed about the fact that delivery windows will not be made? If someone has a delivery window of June-July, it's July 25th and Tesla already knows the car is going to be produced in August and delivered in September, shouldn't Tesla call that customer? There's enough people to make those calls; we got a lot of them when we still had to sign the order ;-)
A blog and some calls, that can't be too much to ask.
Vger
Active Member
Every Tesla employee I have encountered, especially the service managers. treat me like royalty because our car in an early Canadian Signature. To me, that, and the still classically gorgeous Signature Red are plenty value for the up-charge. Sure it was hard to wait while the first several hundred US "P's" got delivered ahead of us, while the bureaucratic gears in Ottawa ground, but half a year later. that means nothing to me.
Mid-September for P #2284? I am afraid I have to disappoint you. Mr. Rischmann is completely misinformed or unrealistically optimistic. I am Sig #283 and I will be lucky if my car gets delivered before the End of September (one Tesla representative I spoke to even said early October). So with P #2284 you will be lucky to get your car in November.
His answer about Norwegian cars is not true. The early delivery by a month is just partly caused by not having to go though sub-assembly in The Netherlands. The main reason is that many Norwegian and Swiss cars are being built weeks earlier. Almost all cars in the EU-excel sheet on this website that have the status 'completed' or 'in production' are either NO or CH.
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AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
As Tesla doesn't seem to think communication with their customers is necessary, looking up info on the internet (especially this forum) often seems to be the only way to get the necessary information. Shame really.
And about "normal" customers. Any customer who expects to be treated the way the company makes him believe to be treated is a "normal" customer. Especially all those other thousands of Model S buyers on North American road who are not members on this forum.
Early adopter or not, it is not about that. It is about the simple fact that Tesla doesn't live up to its own promises (or exaggerations if you will), especially to its most loyal customers - i.e. those willing enough to hand down 30K Euro to them years in advance in order to get the special Sig bonus, known as get your car significantly before general production in your country (of course not before US production, that should have been clear from the beginning)..
felixtb
RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4
signature series has to do with resale value in my mind. having a signature will be more valuable only because it is a signature. I have bought quite a few signature cars and the resale is always better. however, the timing is always miserable because the early run is always delayed even with established car manufacturers. I tried to get a signature MS but was too late. so I was put on a Que. was this because I wanted the car early? not really. rather it was because I wanted a specific signature color and sticker to make the car more valuable in the long run. communication is a difficult thing and when you are trying to SUDDENLY satisfy 1000s of customers instead of a few it is a different ball game. yes GB comes from apple yes this and that but this situation is still new for all involved including us. give them a few years and then complain or give accolades but don't be overbearing now in the infancy. you will only get tired stressed and it will make zero difference. they hear you and they know but there are VERY many plates on the table at this point and they need to satisfy the larger group and not the smaller special group that will eventually reap benefits anyway. my two cents on this over the top debate.
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It's part of Tesla's sales pitch.
From the Australia "RESERVE YOUR TESLA" page:
Buy or Reserve a Tesla | Tesla Motors
When it's 1 of the 3 lines describing what Signature offers (in fact the first of them, and the only one bolded and in all caps), it's clearly a key component of the offering.
Furthermore, if you click the "MODEL X" link on the same page you can see they are making the same claims about it.
felixtb
RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4
yes brainman and technically everybody is getting their signatures first in their respective LOCAL markets but since, as I eluded to, signature runs always are delayed they are getting bunched with the general production. AND if a sig holder delayed even by a week their finalization TESLA cannot be expected to hold up all the remainder of the ordered cars for that local market to satisfy the "singular" signature holder whom cannot decide........ or should they. I suggest not..... but then everyone has a right to their opinion.
considering a sig holder will reap the benefits of being just that at a later date anyway.........
felixtb
RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4
guess it's late here (shanghai) and I'm tired of this really overbearing thread. I CERTAINLY KNOW I DO NOT HAVE TO READ IT. but you do get curious with the title and then you get tired of its persistence. I guess and again it's late.....
. edited initial post...... to be more conciliatory...... No worries. As I said, I think a more generic title (EU Signature Angst) is more appropriate and less whiny/demanding.guess it's late here (shanghai) and I'm tired of this really overbearing thread. I CERTAINLY KNOW I DO NOT HAVE TO READ IT. but you do get curious with the title and then you get tired of its persistence. I guess and again it's late.....
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