Do any potential Model S owners want to chime in on this? Would you be upset at getting a Model S that isn't up to Elon Musk's standards or do you just want your car now?
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Elon Musk
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Do any potential Model S owners want to chime in on this? Would you be upset at getting a Model S that isn't up to Elon Musk's standards or do you just want your car now?
CapitalistOppressor
Active Member
Tesla needs to survive or nobody will be getting cars. If 99% of the build issues have been resolved and nothing critical remains, its probably time to start getting cars out. No car ever built was perfect, and the photos I've seen of recent production seem to indicate that they've eliminated the bulk of the exterior gaps, and folks say the interiors are looking good as well.
Ship the cars and start getting some revenue.
I'd be disappointed if the fob fell apart in my hand the way Elon's did in RoTEC. My expectation is that the physical items are within tolerance (e.g. almost perfect) and that software updates will come to take care of the rest over a couple of years.
Yelmurc
Member
I think he's adding value, but I hope he isn't pushing it too far in that I hope his team feels inspired to push themselves to a higher standard as opposed to a moral killing unreasonably perfectionist standpoint. I'm guessing it's the former., but I know he's shooting for something better than BMW and Audi. I hope Gilbert and Elon are agreeing on the process in place at the very least. It's really hard to bring up a line when your QA isn't finding/fixing iteratively fast enough (I.e. As fast as Elon can). His description of the headlight shim issue where he walked the issue back to the root cause and then found that the issue resulted from apparently an updated part not accompanying updating manufacturing instructions. This is really a basic issue where when a part is revised underneath a set of assembly instructions, the instructions must be approved by engineering as well. I hope this is in pace on their line as that didn't come across very clearly from his explanation.
Since I have a high Signature reservation number, I'm not expecting to get a car up to Elon's standards because he will be less involved in the quality assurance when my car rolls down the line. However, the important issue shouldn't be a matter of whether I want a car to Elon's standards or now. Realistically I won't get either. What's important is tweaking the process to minimize problems BEFORE the switch is thrown on the production ramp up, because its a lot more dangerous to the brand and expensive to fix things after thousands of cars are in the hands of the customers.
For this critical production ramp up process up Elon is the perfect guy to work with Gilbert to balance engineering considerations with financial considerations.
Larry
Bardlebee
Member
I personally wouldn't be worried about any of this as a consumer. I would imagine if there is anything drastically wrong with the vehicle it will be fixed free of charge. Though it would impact them a lot if there are many small defects in different parts around the US, that is a cost on them and a PR issue, not unlike the Fisker fires in a way. Fisker fires obviously being worse.
Yes, I mentioned a premature ramp up without tweaking the production process could be dangerous to the brand.
However, am I to infer from your response that you want Elon to get out of the way and deliver your car ASAP since any defects would be fixed free of charge?
Larry
Bardlebee
Member
Well, considering I am not reserving yet... haha.
But know and I can see the frustration from someone regardless if it were free or not. Maybe that's why I wouldn't be worried personally as I don't yet have a stake and when I do they will be used to high levels of production at efficient quality. Sorry if my post came off as uninformative or even uninformed.
Once Elon gets done with line inspections I'd imagine the factory will be humming and every subsequent unit will be built to the same standards. If I were him, I'd focus on the change orders to do inspections. This includes supplier changes as well as line changes; not just the final product. The likelihood of tracking back to root cause becomes much more difficult as variables increase.
I think a lot of the problems are not just with the suppliers, but with Tesla themselves - whether it is poor ordering, or trying to make changes that are not within the lead time for delivering new parts. To continually blame the suppliers is a little weak. I am sure they are part, but not all, of the problem.
I dunno. My company builds much less complex products than a car, and we have problems with suppliers all the time. They either don't built it they way they are supposed to, or they are late.
I want to bring up that suppliers are huge problems a lot of the time. I regularly get quoted 6 weeks for off the shelf parts (about 15 minutes to assemble into complete part), and they normally take 8-10 weeks to get to me. And this is a large world class provider of these parts. These are not made to order, rather made to inventory parts.
The other supplier I started using takes 3-7 days (depending on when I order, as they have a fixed shipping schedule) to get their comparable part.
First I have heard about Dell buying a Everdream Elon had invested in. Sounds like part of that "story he would tell some day".
Elon birthday gift
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIO-TESLA...50256803814?pt=Art_Prints&hash=item518ceeafe6
Elon birthday gift
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIO-TESLA...50256803814?pt=Art_Prints&hash=item518ceeafe6
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Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
Surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier. David Brooks in the NY Times Op-Ed page today lauds Elon Musk in absolutely glowing terms, working largely off of the Bloomberg/Business Week profile.
Temerity at the Top -- NY Times
There is a larger point made by Brooks, which is that people like Musk are essential to the growth of the economy, but this is quite a coup for Tesla to get mention in such a promiment way. The only cooler place to get mentioned in the NY Times is in the crossword puzzle!
Temerity at the Top -- NY Times
There is a larger point made by Brooks, which is that people like Musk are essential to the growth of the economy, but this is quite a coup for Tesla to get mention in such a promiment way. The only cooler place to get mentioned in the NY Times is in the crossword puzzle!
artsci
Sponsor
This is typical Brooks. Yes, a great profile of Elon, but more notable, especially in light of the point of the story, for what it leaves out Elon is not completely self made, and he would probably be the first one to admit it. Tesla would not be around and we would not be waiting for the Model S today were it not for the Federal government's investment in Tesla. Those loans will be paid back but without them Tesla would be toast. Interesting but not at all surprising that Brooks fails to mention this.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Well, on NPR's "All Things Considered" on Fridays, I've heard Brooks half-heartedly agree with E. J. Dionne on a few occasions that not all of the stimulus spending was bad but, that he doesn't in general think that that's the way to go when compared to cutting entitlements.
But, yes, mentioning the ATVM loan would have taken away from his implication that it was all because of private entrepreneurship.
Edit: sorry he does mention the loan in passing:
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