Yes. I stand by my previous statement. It's a meaningless product that decreases safety and is more stressful to use.
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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
I agree. It's simply not reliable enough to enable hands free in the city. On the interstate, sure, but not in the city. I don't see us being to that place in a year, either.
FSD is still horrible at making left turns, not even complicated ones. This is something that has improved slightly over the last year and with 11.4.X back to where we were a year ago.
One thing Hotz got right with CommaAI/OpenPilot was they have the motto "Make driving chill" while Tesla's motto seems to be "Look at this crazy feature!". I can set FSD beta to "chill" all I want but it isn't capable of delivering chill driving experiences, it's an anxiety-inducing thing that I only enable when I'm feeling like LARPing as an unpaid Tesla employee/tester or showing off to passengers (very easy to backfire).
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Elon is always being Elon, but what's so profound about removing the beta descriptor? Like everything else that Tesla does via software, FSD bugs will continue to be fixed and behavior will continue to be improved. Tesla uses the term "beta" quite freely. I've always thought that for Tesla, the term meant, "Don't be mad at Tesla if it doesn't work quite right, everywhere, all of the time".
A few things;
1. Most of Teslas software is perpetually in Beta. How would autosteer still be Beta, but not FSD?
2. Tesla uses it as a defense as you said, may not do the right thing and that it's not actually Full Self Driving, but level 2 ADAS.
3. Elon says a lot of things on Twitter that haven't come true, are completely false, or at the minimum were really optimistic. This is another example.
I figured this one out: v12 is going to be an alpha-version.
I looking forward to (non-FSD) feature parity with the main channel...
I'm mostly staying on the sidelines for this past weeks unusually high tide of grousing.
But regarding the "Version 12 won't be beta" comment:
First, I interpret this to mean that it won't be "Beta" in the title and headline of the feature. It will remain "beta" in the fine print.
Second, in terms of functionality, I think it means that V12 will be the version that you get when you purchase/subscribe and enable FSD. You may be able to control individual features, like a toggle for Autosteer on City Streets aka NoA Off-Highway or however they evolve the name.
In other words, you won't have to request it, and yes it will become embedded in every software release. Probably also, this code base will finally supplant the old Autopilot (except for cars with older more limited hardware).
Finally, I suspect there will also still be a beta track, to maintain a relatively large and known testing pool for further development. This is completely sensible and kind of necessary for the Big Data ML software model - but I could already start making mya list of forum users who will bleat that Elon "lied" about beta disappearing with v12.
But regarding the "Version 12 won't be beta" comment:
First, I interpret this to mean that it won't be "Beta" in the title and headline of the feature. It will remain "beta" in the fine print.
Second, in terms of functionality, I think it means that V12 will be the version that you get when you purchase/subscribe and enable FSD. You may be able to control individual features, like a toggle for Autosteer on City Streets aka NoA Off-Highway or however they evolve the name.
In other words, you won't have to request it, and yes it will become embedded in every software release. Probably also, this code base will finally supplant the old Autopilot (except for cars with older more limited hardware).
Finally, I suspect there will also still be a beta track, to maintain a relatively large and known testing pool for further development. This is completely sensible and kind of necessary for the Big Data ML software model - but I could already start making mya list of forum users who will bleat that Elon "lied" about beta disappearing with v12.
jeewee3000
Active Member
That would make sense. Bring a "stable" FSD v12 build for the masses that paid for FSD, and have test builds that you can opt in on for further refinement.I'm mostly staying on the sidelines for this past weeks unusually high tide of grousing.
But regarding the "Version 12 won't be beta" comment:
Finally, I suspect there will also still be a beta track, to maintain a relatively large and known testing pool for further development. This is completely sensible and kind of necessary for the Big Data ML software model - but I could already start making mya list of forum users who will bleat that Elon "lied" about beta disappearing with v12.
Only when certain improvements from the test build are ready for prime time, the main v12 stack is updated.
Also allows them to say they delivered on their promises for delivering FSD to the masses as an L2 driver assist feature.
They can then move on to FSDUltra on HW4 and HW5 cars. My understanding is FSDUltra on HW4 will allow the car to operate as a robotaxi, increasing the value of the car to over $2,150,000. Should be feature complete by the end of the year and have regulator approval to operate as driverless taxi by end of next year. And it will fly.
They can then move on to FSDUltra on HW4 and HW5 cars. My understanding is FSDUltra on HW4 will allow the car to operate as a robotaxi, increasing the value of the car to over $2,150,000. Should be feature complete by the end of the year and have regulator approval to operate as driverless taxi by end of next year. And it will fly.
yeah, riiight
What about the appreciating assets and robotaxis now?Actual FSD according to Tesla's naming standards
Not that it (whatever it's going to be called) would deliver on any autonomy promises either.“Actual FSD” is perfect. 
Seriously though, what does Elon do at this point if HW3 just doesn’t have the sensors or oomph to get it done? What is Tesla’s plan B? They are so backed into a corner on this thing that “beta” and “preview” and “next version x.x” is all they’ve got. But they can’t just work on it forever. There has to be a time where they have to fish or cut bait, and I would have guessed that time was two years ago.
Seriously though, what does Elon do at this point if HW3 just doesn’t have the sensors or oomph to get it done? What is Tesla’s plan B? They are so backed into a corner on this thing that “beta” and “preview” and “next version x.x” is all they’ve got. But they can’t just work on it forever. There has to be a time where they have to fish or cut bait, and I would have guessed that time was two years ago.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
“Actual FSD” is perfect.
Seriously though, what does Elon do at this point if HW3 just doesn’t have the sensors or oomph to get it done? What is Tesla’s plan B? They are so backed into a corner on this thing that “beta” and “preview” and “next version x.x” is all they’ve got. But they can’t just work on it forever. There has to be a time where they have to fish or cut bait, and I would have guessed that time was two years ago.
I mean, they already planned for this since early 2019 when they changed what they promise when you buy FSD to never put more than L2 in writing during the purchase.
It'll be terrible PR when they have to admit that's all those folks are getting but financially they're not gonna owe anybody $ other than the tiny # of pre 3/19 buyers, all of whom paid a lot less for FSD anyway (between 2-5k depending on when)
When do they admit it? Probably can put it off until the first time HW4 gets something HW3 does not.
Well one simple way out of the corner would be refunds.“Actual FSD” is perfect.
Seriously though, what does Elon do at this point if HW3 just doesn’t have the sensors or oomph to get it done? What is Tesla’s plan B? They are so backed into a corner on this thing that “beta” and “preview” and “next version x.x” is all they’ve got. But they can’t just work on it forever. There has to be a time where they have to fish or cut bait, and I would have guessed that time was two years ago.
I would settle for transfer to new Tesla.
Honestly, offer me a refund and turn off my ability for FSD, take me back to Autopilot and I'd be ok with it. The experiment has been a failure.
Yep, it's difficult to not feel cheated but FSD isn't production ready. It's stressful, too many regressions, chronic issues, bugs, poor decision making, ... It's adequate for the open road with no cross traffic but even then there's occasional phantom braking.
Yet like many, I enjoy FSD and have used it Every drive for close to 2 years and would not own the car without this convenience. In fact it’s the only thing holding me back from a MSP flip at this time. While not Perfect, it has also never been done so I enjoy seeing the progress.
MarcG
Active Member
Do you live in an urban, suburban, or rural area? I feel like there’s a big difference in FSD performance across different environments.
In San Francisco, it’s a lot of “work” to stay on top of FSD and make sure it doesn’t do something stupid, which it did multiple times per drive in the early days, and still does so at least one per drive these days.
Unlike those hiding in the “here“ location I am in Illinois in the Chicago suburbs. Granted I travel (drive) a lot across several states. Don’t disagree there are likely regions with better street/lane markings that improve results but overall as designed knowing it’s general short comings I have few issues. Again for clarity, as an Assist software I do not groan fail when it needs me to confirm a touch of the accelerator.
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