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Durability of 21" tires
- Thread starter bosgig
- Start date
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
rogbmw
Member
sublimaze1
8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins
Not to mention that, unlike other performance sedans, we have a significant weight penalty. I go with dsm363. Prob a years worth ... maybe 16 months.
artsci
Sponsor
Go ahead and measure the tread now. Jerry33 probably has the original thickness memorized
pilotSteve
Active Member
Is there an expected life difference between the Pef options's 21s (described as "high performance tires") and the Sig 21 inch "high performance tires"? I know the Perf wheels can be gray vs. silver but at one point I thought the tires themselves were from different manufacturers.
In short, are you giving up tire life for better performance with the MSP vs. the MS?
In short, are you giving up tire life for better performance with the MSP vs. the MS?
Since the rear tires see the most wear from regen and acceleration, your 5200 miles means your front tires have even more tread on them. Rotating the tires you'll probably see at least 15-20k miles.
There are a few parts to the answer:
1. Is it legal to drive with summer tires in inclement winter weather where you live? (Summer tires: tires without M-S or other winter tire markings on the sidewall.) If the answer is "No" and you don't have a "winter car", then you don't need to read any further. Just get the extra 19" tires and wheels.
2. Even if it is legal, should you be involved in an accident in winter conditions, even if the accident would normally be 100% the other driver's fault, you might be held partly responsible. Of course, the accident investigator, insurance adjustor, or the other party's lawyer would have to catch this, but it's a pretty easy catch. (Easier than, for example, having tires mounted that have a lower carrying capacity than the OE tires.)
3. From a technical perspective, the 21" tires are summer high performance tires. They are designed to not turn to goo during hard maneuvering on hot days (40 C). Because of that the tread compound basically turns to wood as the temperature declines. Even on dry pavement when the temperature is cold (10 C and below), the tires will be slippery until they get warmed up. If you hit a patch of black ice no amount of vehicle stability control or ABS will save you. This will be true even at 5-10 mph (been there, done that, got lucky. Circumstances were driving down a sloping driveway. The tires were more "winterish" than the Model S' 21" tires too).
I'm in DFW where there are between two and ten days of winter weather per year. I'm not concerned about performance, other than using minimum energy to propel the car for maximum range, so for me the choice is easy: get the 19" tires, skip the 21" altogether. If I wanted to use the performance aspects of the Model S, I'd get two sets of tires and wheels. If I lived in any place that had a real winter, I'd probably get three sets of tires and wheels (winter, summer touring, performance summer).
P.S. Be sure about what the laws are regarding winter tires in your area. In some places they need to be installed during certain date ranges regardless of the weather (probably not in Georgia, but some places have odd laws).
I'll look into the rules around here.
I will say this: it's 67 degrees right now, the day after Thanksgiving and it's going to be warmer. On the other hand, it will get as low at 34F tonight because, well, Atlanta that's why. It snows once every two years around these parts (though after 12 years in Boston and NJ snow, I can drive in that kind of weather) and then only for a little while, so I'm not all that worried about snow. On the other hand, we do get ice every once in a while and it's not really worth it to be out when that happens, no matter what kind of tires you have.
Sigh. I suppose I could do the 19" all seasons for the winter? Are there 21" all seasons that will fit the wheels on the Tesla? Apparently I know nothing about tires. I guess it's just never come up.
I will say this: it's 67 degrees right now, the day after Thanksgiving and it's going to be warmer. On the other hand, it will get as low at 34F tonight because, well, Atlanta that's why. It snows once every two years around these parts (though after 12 years in Boston and NJ snow, I can drive in that kind of weather) and then only for a little while, so I'm not all that worried about snow. On the other hand, we do get ice every once in a while and it's not really worth it to be out when that happens, no matter what kind of tires you have.
Sigh. I suppose I could do the 19" all seasons for the winter? Are there 21" all seasons that will fit the wheels on the Tesla? Apparently I know nothing about tires. I guess it's just never come up.
Jerry really knows his stuff. I have been debating the same thing. The problem appears to be there are no all-season 21 inch tires that can be purchased. Also I am not familiar with the Georgia law regarding summer tires in winter, and I to live in Atlanta as well. So if you find anything about the law insofar as winter tires are concerned I certainly would appreciate you posting it.
It's only iced once here in 4 years where I live in Texas and that lasted for 6 hours. The entire city was shut down. In that case, I may just end up taking a taxi as strange as that sounds. I really would rather have all season tires as well but the car came with the 21" rims.
That would be the smart thing to do. I drive the Prius on ice days and it's one of the best vehicles out there (if fitted with proper tires--the OE tires are particularly bad on ice). I expect the Model S with 19" wheels will not be as good as the Prius because the tires are just too wide for great traction on ice and snow. However, I do expect the Model S will be better than most vehicles because of vehicle stability control and the electric motors. Smooth is very important when the traction is minimal.
pilotSteve
Active Member
@dsm363 - doh! I find the answer a little while later on the 'specs' page. Thanks for the kind answer.
@Jerry33 - yes the root of my question (and many others here) is performance in less than summer for the DW rated 245/35R21 Continentals. Whats I've learned from you (I believe I have this correct) is that the DW (dry, wet) rating means its (a) optimized for summer (warm/hot performance driving), (b) but has tread patterns etc. that allow for water to be reasonably shed for acceptable (good?) wet performance and (c) not to be used below 10°C (snow/ice) because the tread compound will not be flexible/compliant enough for safe stopping.
If thats right, then (a) I too would prefer 19" all season HOWEVER (b) my Sig "made" me pay for the 21s (or lose the premium value) and (v) I'll keep the car in my garage in the relatively few times in the NW (Oregon/Washington) that there is snow or ice.
Thanks again for your patient explanations of tire and wheel magic to us noobs!
@Jerry33 - yes the root of my question (and many others here) is performance in less than summer for the DW rated 245/35R21 Continentals. Whats I've learned from you (I believe I have this correct) is that the DW (dry, wet) rating means its (a) optimized for summer (warm/hot performance driving), (b) but has tread patterns etc. that allow for water to be reasonably shed for acceptable (good?) wet performance and (c) not to be used below 10°C (snow/ice) because the tread compound will not be flexible/compliant enough for safe stopping.
If thats right, then (a) I too would prefer 19" all season HOWEVER (b) my Sig "made" me pay for the 21s (or lose the premium value) and (v) I'll keep the car in my garage in the relatively few times in the NW (Oregon/Washington) that there is snow or ice.
Thanks again for your patient explanations of tire and wheel magic to us noobs!
That's pretty much it, although you could add safe turning and safe acceleration to safe stopping.
I'm pretty sure that Washington--or at least parts of Washington--requires tires with M-S rating during certain months of the year whether there are bad road conditions or not. Be sure to check your local DMV for the actual requirements because it's been some time since I lived in that area. Don't know about Oregon but it's likely similar.
Hey pilotSteve, as another Vancouver (WA) resident, I have had been studying this issue (since I'm getting the performance w/21") and chatted with a co-worker who has DW rated 'Summer' tires on his 911 (which he has had for years). My take away has been that I should definitely swap out for the 19" MS tires in the winter here. There are just too many days where the temps hover around freezing and the tires become dangerous to drive. If price is a major concern consider that over time, you might break even or even save money because you're doubling the life of your 21" tires (yes, you'll wear your 19" but at a slower rate, and they're much cheaper to replace).
Another thought is that you can post a question in the NW Regional forum, there are a lot of Portland/Metro folks there who will chime in.
In case it wasn't clear, inclement weather means any time the temperature is around freezing and there is precipitation. Around freezing means lower than 40F (4C). At that temperature it's possible for overpasses and bridges to ice up.
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