Do You Think Any Last-Minute Changes To Model 3 Were Made Because of Chevy Bolt?

[S'toon]

The Model ≡ is only a conception at this point. There is no prototype. Mr Musk made this clear at his speech in France. The Bolt is at most a sub compact car and according to Mr Musk the Model ≡ will be a luxury sedan smaller than the Model S. I am sure they will take into considerarion what is going on in the entire EV market place. We are also probably two years out from having a production car. Maybe even 3-4. Remember the Model S and Model X were both years delayed from conception to production. A lot can happen in the EV space during this time.

People are taking what Elon Musk said and twisting it. Someone asked when pictures would be available and he answered at the end of March. People are twisting that to say he said the reveal would be pictures. He was answering a specific question that wasn't about the release.

 

[Brad_SC]

I guarantee there is a M3 prototype and it will be rolling out onto the stage in about 40 days. Can't wait!

I'm with you. There is undoubtedly a prototype to be revealed. Tesla wants mass enthusiasm and media attention to help build a huge list of reservations. We'll see a working car on March 31, yes still a prototype though.

Seriously, we all have to realize that while the S and X have taken center stage during announcements over the past years, the Mass Market Vehicle has surely had a lot of back room attention for years already. I'm sure they are farther ahead of schedule than most people anticipate, giving them plenty of room to complete the final details on time.

What could be better that announcing its availability on time? Announcing its availability early, obviously. That would surely get the media and market analysts in a frenzy.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I don't think they'll care as long as they meet or exceed the range. Elon doesn't view the Bolt as the competition, so I think we're putting too much thought in comparing the two.

If I were Elon, I would keep the cost of the battery down and keep the capacity down. If the limiting factor to selling cars is going to be the Gigafactory putting out batteries, lower is better.

The other thing to remember is the Supercharger network. I think it would be smart for them to put the money into the network rather than a slightly higher capacity battery.

Larger capacity means a better car and a better network. More range, faster charging, which means less charging, higher volume.

Remember that Tesla's aim is very cheap batteries. At $100/kWh why would they be cutting the cost by $500 in a way that makes the car worse for the owner and effectively raises the cost of the Supercharger network?

I think that a sub-60kWh pack size would be a really bad sign.

The Bolt could have an influence, but at this stage it seems to be designed as a companion vehicle and not a direct competitor, so the only concern it raises would be to bring cars to market sooner, to keep ahead in production capacity.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think that a sub-60kWh pack size would be a really bad sign.

I don't think it would necessarily be bad news if efficiency is high.

 

[scottf200]

I can't imagine anything that GM did with the Bolt that could could possibly throw Tesla for a loop. The Bolt is a pretty basic car, with not much in the way of innovation.

the bolt mirror going from standard to 80 degree camera
view with flip of a button on the bottom of mirror.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/YSvhOdb.png

Here is the rear view in a 7 seat Tesla Model X. Presumably the 3 or Y will have rear seat headrest too

Image: http://i.imgur.com/Ah5eGmB.png

 

[Model 3]

We are also probably two years out from having a production car. Maybe even 3-4.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/02/13/stop-assuming-teslas-model-3-will-be-late.aspx

Stop Assuming Tesla's Model 3 Will Be Late

The electric-car maker has a track record of delaying its product launches. Here's why the Model 3 might be on time.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I don't think they'll care as long as they meet or exceed the range. Elon doesn't view the Bolt as the competition, so I think we're putting too much thought in comparing the two.

If I were Elon, I would keep the cost of the battery down and keep the capacity down. If the limiting factor to selling cars is going to be the Gigafactory putting out batteries, lower is better.

The other thing to remember is the Supercharger network. I think it would be smart for them to put the money into the network rather than a slightly higher capacity battery.

Larger capacity means a better car and a better network. More range, faster charging, which means less charging, higher volume.

Remember that Tesla's aim is very cheap batteries. At $100/kWh why would they be cutting the cost by $500 in a way that makes the car worse for the owner and effectively raises the cost of the Supercharger network?

I think that a sub-60kWh pack size would be a really bad sign.

The Bolt could have an influence, but at this stage it seems to be designed as a companion vehicle and not a direct competitor, so the only concern it raises would be to bring cars to market sooner, to keep ahead in production capacity.

I don't think it would necessarily be bad news if efficiency is high.

I think ItsNotAboutTheMoney has the right idea. What all this talk about small batteries overlooks is that smaller batteries take significantly longer to charge because they need a higher SOC to make a given range and they taper more quickly. This is likely one of the reasons the 60 was phased out in favor of the 70 on the Model S. Besides the longer range, the 70 Supercharges more quickly and gives a better driver experience when making longer trips via the Supercharger network.

It has little to do with the weight and aerodynamic efficiency of 3; a small battery means slower Supercharging. I just don't see a sub 60kWh pack for the 3. I'd be astonished if it happened (and would pile on with everybody else to order the bigger pack option).

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think ItsNotAboutTheMoney has the right idea. What all this talk about small batteries overlooks is that smaller batteries take significantly longer to charge because they need a higher SOC to make a given range and they taper more quickly. This is likely one of the reasons the 60 was phased out in favor of the 70 on the Model S. Besides the longer range, the 70 Supercharges more quickly and gives a better driver experience when making longer trips via the Supercharger network.

It has little to do with the weight and aerodynamic efficiency of 3; a small battery means slower Supercharging. I just don't see a sub 60kWh pack for the 3. I'd be astonished if it happened (and would pile on with everybody else to order the bigger pack option).

By smaller pack, I'm talking about 50-60kWh. I'm not talking about the 40kWh advocated by some. I don't think it is necessarily bad for Model 3 to have a sub-60kWh pack if it can still get more real world range compared to the Bolt (shouldn't be too hard with better aerodynamics).

 

[S'toon]

the bolt mirror going from standard to 80 degree camera
view with flip of a button on the bottom of mirror.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/YSvhOdb.png

View attachment 112034

Here is the rear view in a 7 seat Tesla Model X. Presumably the 3 or Y will have rear seat headrest too

Image: http://i.imgur.com/Ah5eGmB.png
View attachment 112035

Having a rear view camera projected onto a mirror ain't that innovative. Especially when you falsely compare it to the 7 seat Model X. First of all, completely different vehicle from the Model 3, secondly the rear view camera on the X can be put on the much larger display permanently if the driver wants.

 

[scottf200]

Having a rear view camera projected onto a mirror ain't that innovative. Especially when you falsely compare it to the 7 seat Model X. First of all, completely different vehicle from the Model 3, secondly the rear view camera on the X can be put on the much larger display permanently if the driver wants.

Something I'd have expected on such expensive cars as the S and X and GM is doing it on the Bolt. Note I stated "Presumably the 3 or Y will have rear seat headrest too [and rear passengers]". Well Tesla doesn't do it and the needs to. Why waste 1/2 of my main screen on a rearview! Much more useful for other things for that. I can't believe people use that as their counter logic.

 

[gregincal]

From an historical standpoint, Tesla has gone from offering 40, 60, 70, 85, 90 kwh battery options and now has simplified that down to only 70D and 90D kwh. So, I don't think they will offer a 55, 60, 65 option because that might be going backwards a bit. I think they might keep it simple and just offer a 70kwh battery pack for the Model 3. They will probably be able to reduce the price of the pack to be reasonable for the Model 3 with economies of scale and maybe a new battery architecture. Easier to max production since all 3 cars will utilize same battery sizes.

But also to go against my own point, Model 3 is smaller and will be on a new platform, so maybe they will go with the smaller 60kwh battery . Its fun to speculate.

It's not like they offered those all at once. At any given time they've had either 2 or 3 battery options, and a lot of the time it has only been 2 battery options (although they originally offered 3, they only ever built two, and during they time they offered three again was really just a transition from 85 to 90). I expect 2 battery options on the 3.

 

[S3XY]

It's not like they offered those all at once. At any given time they've had either 2 or 3 battery options, and a lot of the time it has only been 2 battery options (although they originally offered 3, they only ever built two, and during they time they offered three again was really just a transition from 85 to 90). I expect 2 battery options on the 3.

I do too and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to make it the same 2 as the S and X. The biggest issue is whether or not they can fit them, with cost a close second.

 

[brkaus]

I do too and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to make it the same 2 as the S and X. The biggest issue is whether or not they can fit them, with cost a close second.

The car is narrower, unlikely that the current pack would fit. If it needs a redesign, then no need to keep the numbers the same.

Smaller, less weight, can go the same distance with smaller pack.

 

[scottf200]

<snip> secondly the rear view camera on the X can be put on the much larger display permanently if the driver wants.

Not a great solution as you can see from the opening post in this thread below (click hyperlink double arrow). I care about this related topic because my X is ready in a week or so.

My wife and I picked up our Model X on Wednesday. We bought the 7 seat version which makes the view out the back window - using the rear view mirror - very limited. Consequently my wife decided to use the backup camera as a high tech alternative. It really works very well when it's not raining. Well we live in the Seattle area and as everyone knows it rains here a lot...like 300 days a year. The water droplets completely obscure the camera lens and the result is an unusable image. I guess they designed the car in sunny CA and din;t check it in the rain..or something. Anyway I digress. I was thinking of using Rain-X for Plastic, which apparently is not as good as the standard Rain-X which is designed for use on glass only. Any suggestions on how to deal with this issue.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not a great solution as you can see from the opening post in this thread below (click hyperlink double arrow). I care about this related topic because my X is ready in a week or so.

Wouldn't the Bolt rear camera have the same exact problem with rain (it's still a camera, except with a wide angle lens)?

 

[EVNow]

Rear camera instead of mirror doesn't work for us. We use a larger mirror where we can see the children in the back seat.

 

[Az_Rael]

Rear camera instead of mirror doesn't work for us. We use a larger mirror where we can see the children in the back seat.

The Bolt's design switches from a regular mirror to camera view with a button on the mirror. It's pretty clever actually.

Myself, I am hoping rear visibility out a Model 3 won't be an issue and it won't be needed.