David Crosby runs over jogger in Model S

[EVenthusiast]

Plot twist, auto pilot was on. The car is blaming the driver.

But seriously, that is a good question. We know it can see through fog and low light, but what about over exposure in the lenses? Obviously not applicable to the short range radar sensors, just the cameras.

The manual actually mentions that you need to stay in control of the vehicle at all times for various reasons, including the sun blinding the camera (found this by accident while reading another thread earlier today, but it's common sense).

I guess a FLIR camera would make a great upgrade someday (but obviously would have to be a lot smaller than this one).

 

[doug]

During a bike ride a few years ago, a guy who used to work for me was killed by a car. When running or biking, you need to pay attention to your surroundings. Wearing headphones is too distracting for the roads.

I'm a marathoner and a Tesla owner. Even with middle-age hearing loss, I can hear tire noise from any EV. That might not be the case with headphones.

I basically agree. But when I'm out running for two hours I need to listen to news or a book or something. I don't really run on roads (mainly to avoid the exhaust). There are plenty of nice paths away from traffic up here.

 

[Ride Long]

I basically agree. But when I'm out running for two hours I need to listen to news or a book or something. I don't really run on roads (mainly to avoid the exhaust). There are plenty of nice paths away from traffic up here.

If you need headphones to run, you're doing it wrong. Seriously. Running since 1996; I've run up to 10 hours (not a typo, 50 mile trail race) without anything in my ears and you will be fine. You may even find you like it better: you are much more in touch with the surroundings and everything going on.

Without regard to headphones or the direction the runner was going, Mr Crosby needs to learn how to keep his vehicle in the travel lane. Looks like he and/or his insurance company are going to be six-figures lighter because of this. We can only hope the victim recovers fully.

 

[4SUPER9]

I'd equate a runner to a bicycle so they should both move *with* traffic. Coming at you 'twice as fast' is a real problem for drivers facing oncoming runners.
--

Of course that is true for bicyclist. They must follow the same rules of the road as vehicles. Runners, OTOH, when on a road should always run against traffic. This is for their protection, not a car's (well, Duh!). They can see anything coming their way, and step aside (hopefully).

In my neighborhood, every single street and wonderfully maintained sidewalks, yet joggers insist on running in the road, often with their backs towards traffic, and even then, not all the way to the right. Given that speeds are 25 MPH, they can't hear me coming!! I would have to honk (which I hate doing) to get them to move to the side of the road, then they end up given me the evil eye. I wish their were some notices (PSA's) to get them some basic education on pedestrian safety.

As far as this incident goes, I know that road well and have taken my bicycle on it a few times. It is a rural road with very small shoulders. Even on a bike, I am nervous.

 

[Shawn Snider]

Somehow jogging on the side of a road where cars are going 55 MPH doesn't seem like the wisest idea. I jog all the time but stick to back streets and am always aware of my surroundings.

^-- This exactly... Sounds like Mr. Jimenez was in the lane of traffic, not on the sidewalk (if there was one)...

 

[stevej119]

In my neighborhood, every single street and wonderfully maintained sidewalks, yet joggers insist on running in the road, often with their backs towards traffic, and even then, not all the way to the right.

As a former runner and now cyclist/Teslaist (sp?) I can tell you that one reason runners avoid sidewalks is that concrete is literally (and yes, I do know the meaning of "literally") 10 times harder than asphalt. Your knees won't last long running on concrete. Nor will your head if you impact it on concrete. That said, I certainly would never advise running with your back to traffic and believe that anyone who runs or rides on roads while listening to music on earbuds is seriously jeopardizing their safety.

 

[doug]

If you need headphones to run, you're doing it wrong.

To each his own. I've done both. I run daily for exercise and to stay in shape for my other activities. I prefer to use that time to keep up on the news or brush up on my foreign language skills. I can still hear the birds and other stuff around me.

 

[Saghost]

My big question is whether Autopilot would have "seen" the jogger and not been blinded by the sun like a human.

Still a lot we don't know about the pieces that make up the Autopilot system. If my supposition was right and they are using Delphi's phased array radar system, it claims to be able to see pedestrians out to 200 feet:

Delphi ESR v9.21.15 - AutonomouStuff - Your Single Source Supplier for Autonomy Components

I'd imagine that this capability would be implemented in the auto-braking that's supposed to be coming in 6.2 in a week or two.
Walter

 

[jerry33]

Every jurisdiction that has a law I am aware of requires pedestrians to travel facing traffic and bicycles to be with traffic.

Correct. You don't ever want to be going against the traffic on a bicycle. You will always be where the driver doesn't expect you.

 

[Lump]

911 call...blames sun in his eye.

[video]http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/24/david-crosby-911-call-hit-man-car-accident-jogger/[/video]

 

[wycolo]

> Joggers are likely to be going 4-7mph, so the speed doubling problem is minimal . . [LetsGoFast]

Like 14 mph is minimal? No, that is a huge difference in speed. A driver overtaking someone running 7 mph has *much* more time to react compared to a runner coming at the driver. If the driver feels 'safe' overtaking said runner at [x mph] then she needs to instantly drop to [x-14 mph] to keep the same safety factor with a runner coming towards. Trouble is that most drivers just go the speed limit regardless of this 'incoming mail' problem.

As drivers adjust their driving speed to encroaching dusk (we never make this adjustment quickly enough!), our speed is dropped a few miles at a time as it gets darker. Reflect on that final 1 mph drop in speed as you reach your preferred safety level - how that mere 1 mph difference can still improve one's sense of control. With big game lurking hereabouts this is a big deal for me but should be the same anywhere else.

Not a comment on what runners or walkers should be doing one way or the other, just on how drivers should react. If I'm on foot I'd stay as far away from moving traffic as possible at all hours.
--

 

[eco5280]

I'm a firm believer that roads are for vehicles. Pedestrians and bicycles put themselves in lethal danger every time they position themselves on a roadway with 2.5 ton steel beasts traveling at 15 times their speed.

 

[4SUPER9]

> Joggers are likely to be going 4-7mph, so the speed doubling problem is minimal . . [LetsGoFast]

Like 14 mph is minimal? No, that is a huge difference in speed. A driver overtaking someone running 7 mph has *much* more time to react compared to a runner coming at the driver. If the driver feels 'safe' overtaking said runner at [x mph] then she needs to instantly drop to [x-14 mph] to keep the same safety factor with a runner coming towards. Trouble is that most drivers just go the speed limit regardless of this 'incoming mail' problem.

As drivers adjust their driving speed to encroaching dusk (we never make this adjustment quickly enough!), our speed is dropped a few miles at a time as it gets darker. Reflect on that final 1 mph drop in speed as you reach your preferred safety level - how that mere 1 mph difference can still improve one's sense of control. With big game lurking hereabouts this is a big deal for me but should be the same anywhere else.

Not a comment on what runners or walkers should be doing one way or the other, just on how drivers should react. If I'm on foot I'd stay as far away from moving traffic as possible at all hours.
--

I think you may be missing the point. Your assumption is that this philosophy is for driver's reaction time. I see where you are going with this, and your analysis of reaction time makes sense. However, this has nothing (well, little) to do with driver's reaction time. Jogging, running, walking, etc. on the left side of the road is not for the driver's benefit nor to change driver's reaction time. It's entirely meant for the jogger's reaction time. If the jogger sees a car coming his direction, he can move to the side of the road long before the car arrives.

I'm a firm believer that roads are for vehicles. Pedestrians and bicycles put themselves in lethal danger every time they position themselves on a roadway with 2.5 ton steel beasts traveling at 15 times their speed.

As to whether on whether people should be on the road or not, that is irrelevant. They have the legal right to do so. In areas like this, it is the only way for them to travel from their homes to town, school, etc. Otherwise, they would be mandated to use a vehicle. That's not cool

 

[TEG]

...Any news where exactly this happened?...

Musician David Crosby Injures Jogger in Santa Ynez Valley Vehicle Accident | News - KEYT

...The accident occurred on Baseline Avenue near Mora St...

No sidewalk, no bike-lane... Not much room for a jogger to share the road with a car.

Musician David Crosby Injures Jogger in Santa Ynez Valley Vehicle Accident | News - KEYT

...the sun can set directly in the sky facing oncoming traffic this time of year. “ If you don't have sunglasses or a visor it is impossible to see what's going on. This is a dangerous area. It is just not a good spot to be jogging,"...
...

The CHP says pedestrians and joggers need to be on the side of the road facing traffic so they can see the vehicles and get out of the way if they are in danger. He also said Baseline Ave. is a shared road for vehicles, bicyclists, and pedestrians...

 

[Ride Long]

I'm a firm believer that roads are for vehicles. Pedestrians and bicycles put themselves in lethal danger every time they position themselves on a roadway with 2.5 ton steel beasts traveling at 15 times their speed.

A bicycle is a vehicle. Cyclists and pedestrians have the same rights, with some exceptions like interstates, to access roadways as automobiles. Everyone is in lethal danger every time they enter a roadway, regardless of their choice of mode of travel. The biggest danger to cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians alike is driver awareness: we already have data that show in areas where cyclists are common the incidence of cyclist fatalities and injuries goes down.

A road near me that I like to cycle and run on (Rt 28, Darnestown Rd for DC area locals) has nice wide shoulders as well as a designated bike lane (in some parts, but that's another rant). When I ride I use the bike lane with traffic, and when I run I take the opposite side on the shoulder. #1 risk by far are motorists entering the road to my left who simply never look to see if a pedestrian is approaching from the right. I of course am acutely aware of them because I want to go running and I don't want to die.

I tell all my Tesla and car buddies the same thing: if you want to know how bad Americans drive, go ride a bike for an hour.

 

[ATC@LWSK]

Hövding Airbag Helm: Ein revolutionärer Fahrradhelm

This seems like a good accessory for cyclists!

 

[JohnQ]

I'm a firm believer that roads are for vehicles. Pedestrians and bicycles put themselves in lethal danger every time they position themselves on a roadway with 2.5 ton steel beasts traveling at 15 times their speed.

I'll pile on a bit here. In virtually all jurisdictions, bicycles are defined as vehicles. Thus, to your statement, they have a right to the road. Just like a horse & buggy, just like a tractor and just like a car. Am I personally at greater risk when riding my bike on a public road. Yes. I have to trust drivers to see me and react appropriately. In cities, it's usually a non-issue since I'm traveling within 10mph of drivers. On rural roads it's a bit more challenging.

Cyclists also have a responsibility to make themselves visible, take responsibility for their own safety and to be courteous to other vehicles on the road (riding single file, keeping right when safe to do so) and following traffic laws (stopping at stop signs and signals, etc).

 

[eco5280]

Bicycles may be legal but they'll never be safe. That was more my point. Ride on a road, especially one without a marked bike lane, and you're taking your life in your own hands. One car going 55 mph around a bend and it's all over.

I live in Colorado - bicycles are everywhere on the roads. And bicyclists are hit often.

 

[Jaff]

I'll pile on a bit here. In virtually all jurisdictions, bicycles are defined as vehicles...Cyclists also have a responsibility to make themselves visible, take responsibility for their own safety and to be courteous to other vehicles on the road (riding single file, keeping right when safe to do so) and following traffic laws (stopping at stop signs and signals, etc).

A lot of the problem we have with bike riders in my locale stem from the fact that many of them do not obey the traffic laws (failing to stop at stoplights / stop signs...passing on the right side of vehicles...passing between stopped vehicles...etc.). The problem will only get better if both cars and bikes respect the rules of the road...

 

[jerry33]

Bicycles may be legal but they'll never be safe. That was more my point. Ride on a road, especially one without a marked bike lane, and you're taking your life in your own hands. One car going 55 mph around a bend and it's all over.

I live in Colorado - bicycles are everywhere on the roads. And bicyclists are hit often.

Most of the time it's because the bicyclist isn't following the rules of the road. As a cyclist I feel far safer on a roadway than I do on a bike path (which has the problem of exiting where drivers aren't expecting anything) or bike lane (which are a) dangerous and b) usually not usable because of all the glass litter). I've also had the Effective Cyclist training which every bicycle rider should take.