Courtyard Marriott's $20 plug fee.

[liuping]

I completely disagree that we should be sooo thankful some hotels have charging that we should just bend over and take it. There are PLENTY if not the MAJORITY of hotels that offer charging doing so for free and somehow they are NOT GOING UNDER from the MASSIVE "administration" costs, lmao. (Again, even if they just charged a fee for electricity used I'd be less offended than an arbitrary doubling of the cost)

If anything, if hotels see they can nickle and dime us this way, more and more will start jumping on the bandwagon, realizing they can squeeze a few more dimes out of us "desperate" EV drivers. I ain't gonna stand for this and neither should anyone else.

just my opinion

You can choose to stay anywhere you want, that's they way business works. But getting upset/offended seems strange.

You are paying more for a room than the room "costs" them to maintain. Does that offend you as well?

Do you get upset and boycott hotels that charge you $1 for a soda from the machine? it only cost them about 25 center for the soda after all.

I'm firmly in the camp that is glad they provide the charger at all. Hassling them and complaining will only get get them to shut it down. There are not enough Tesla's or any other EVs to make that big of a difference to make it worth the headache for them.

One other thing to consider is that in some places like California, rates can be quite high. $0.40 or more per kWh is not uncommon. A 85kWh charge would cost the hotel more than $34 in that case. Should that still be free?

 

[Liz G]

I'm going to take a moment here to do a plug for a hotel not too far south of that afore mentioned hotel. For those of you ever planning on staying in Wausau and needing a charge, if you are willing to drive a bit. 40 miles south in Stevens Point the Holiday Inn and Convention center (not the extended stay) will run a 240v outlet outside for you if you call ahead and arrange it and they've never charged me. It is around back of the hotel but we've never had any problems overnight the several times we've stayed. The rooms are nice. And the pool area is great for kids.

 

[Rheazombi]

You can choose to stay anywhere you want, that's they way business works. But getting upset/offended seems strange.

You are paying more for a room than the room "costs" them to maintain. Does that offend you as well?

Do you get upset and boycott hotels that charge you $1 for a soda from the machine? it only cost them about 25 center for the soda after all.

I'm firmly in the camp that is glad they provide the charger at all. Hassling them and complaining will only get get them to shut it down. There are not enough Tesla's or any other EVs to make that big of a difference to make it worth the headache for them.

One other thing to consider is that in some places like California, rates can be quite high. $0.40 or more per kWh is not uncommon. A 85kWh charge would cost the hotel more than $34 in that case. Should that still be free?

We've already discussed that hotels offer amenities like pools and tv sets and wifi and amenities to entice visitors without charging them for these extras. Why should EV drivers be treated differently? If I'm visiting your hotel simply because you have charging when I could have just stayed at a cheap motel otherwise, you're getting my added business because of your amenity.

Your $.40/kWh claim is a red herring. The national avg is 11 cents and the highest I have ever seen was around 20 cents. Also, even if that were true in some random circumstance, then you could argue it costs them that much more money to heat the pool, run the AC, have guests turn on the lights, etc. Do you get charged for how much you run the AC or use the pool or if you take hour-long hot showers? No, because guests would have none of that and just stay somewhere else which is precisely what I was saying I would do if a hotel tried ripping me off for charging there.

I should also note that there is a courtyard Marriott I frequently attend in western MA. I could stay at a charming inn instead, closer to the town center, but I stay at the Marriott precisely because of their FREE charging. If they started charging me arbitrary fees to use it, you can bet I would stay somewhere else and their attempt to extort money out of me would lead instead to them losing out on possibly thousands of dollars of my business over the years (especially since this Marriott is never fully booked). Also, seeing as hundreds of hotels have no problem offering free charging, I see no real financial reason why one random hotel (NOT even a mom-and-pop motel mind you) has any actual need to do something like this.

Anyway, I like to vote with my wallet. I'm free to complain and you're free to be okay with getting overcharged for something.

 

[reddy]

Nobody is going to install EVSE equipment if there is no incentive to do so.

Right now, I can't see that the lack of EVSE is a competitive disadvantage. And making the EVSE a headache, and a public relations nightmare, is a disincentive for additional hotel owners to install them.

A real example : We have no public charging anywhere locally, unless you count the local Nissan, Ford or Chevy dealers. A TMC user contacted a local bed and breakfast asking if they would consider installing a 50amp 240v NEMA 14-50 for Tesla users so that stay at their B&B. The owner agreed, and it cost her about $500 to install. Bear in mind she has 4 rooms to rent. She charged extra to use the circuit, her site was listed on Plugshare.com and everybody was happy, until we get a user named MELISSA. OK, we get a legal beagle here complaining

"Melissa7 months agoProprietor is looking to profit off electricity alone and should therefore not be included on PlugShare. Has not obtained permit or license to charge electric rates above cost per kw/h. This is a B&B; not a utility provider. Told me she charges $30 to charge a Tesla on top of what is paid for the room ($115 queen bed). If not staying, price goes up to $45 for full charge on car."

OK, we have a B&B spending serious money trying to add something special for their customers, and a whiny Tesla owner leaves snotty reviews. The customer in this case knows what the cost is, in advance. I seriously doubt the B&B owner has attracted enough visitors by having this amenity to recoup their investment.

What the OP is saying, loud & clear to the hotel/motel/B&B community is "I don't give a hoot about the fact that you took the risk, and went the extra mile to even offer this amenity. I now demand it to be free. "

If we get more stories like this, the industry will definitely NOT be adding more EVSE equipment, and you can go drive to a local RV park and sit there for 8 hours to charge.

Some folks just don't get it.

 

[Rheazombi]

30 bucks is a RIP OFF, period. That guest was right to complain. Install it, recoup your losses for the installation (in the case of Tesla subsidized HPWC, your cost is basically nothing). Aim to break even on the electricity bill but DONT make it a revenue source. It is a billboard to entice well-off guests, and should be nothing more.

 

[Doug_G]

The OP's problem really is that they didn't tell him the charges when he arrived at the hotel. That is simply very bad customer service, and they shouldn't have charged him because they didn't advise him of the fees.

From my point of view, charging $15 to $20 for the service of charging is acceptable. If I were driving a gas car I'd pay more than that for gasoline on the same trip. Anything more than that, though, is gouging.

Obviously I prefer to get it for free, and consider it a reasonable quid pro quo for spending my money at that hotel. So if there are two hotels in an area, and one offers free charging and the other paid charging, well you know where I'm going to stay.

On the other hand, if a hotel does not offer charging at all, I tend not to stay there at all - mainly because I cannot. I need to charge my car!

 

[Krugerrand]

30 bucks is a RIP OFF, period. That guest was right to complain. Install it, recoup your losses for the installation (in the case of Tesla subsidized HPWC, your cost is basically nothing). Aim to break even on the electricity bill but DONT make it a revenue source. It is a billboard to entice well-off guests, and should be nothing more.

I'm not understanding how the owner is to recoup their cost installation of $500 if not by charging a bit more than the electrical costs. I don't imagine that most or even many of their guests at this point are EV owners. It wouldn't be fair for all guests (specifically those that have ICE's) to pay for the installation by raising room rates, would it? Or what if the B&B had a gas pump? Should they only charge quests what they paid for the fuel? Because that's how gas stations work, right?

Business owners decide what to charge, patrons decide whether they're willing to pay the rates or not. We are in the early stages of EV adoption and EV charging availability at businesses, it stands to reason that business owners are feeling out how best to move forward on this front for their businesses.

 

[reddy]

30 bucks is a RIP OFF, period. That guest was right to complain. Install it, recoup your losses for the installation (in the case of Tesla subsidized HPWC, your cost is basically nothing). Aim to break even on the electricity bill but DONT make it a revenue source. It is a billboard to entice well-off guests, and should be nothing more.

Zombi, the owner isn't a NYSE listed company. Apparently you've never stayed at B&B. They don't get subsidies. These people are essentially renting rooms in their homes. They don't make a lot of money at it, they do it because they like the people aspect of it.

To have people leave reviews like that is a powerful disincentive to them. You STILL don't get it. And worse, you are making it harder for the rest of us.

 

[stevezzzz]

I just posted on the subject of paying for charging in the wild in another thread:

Green Car Reports: Tesla Model S Cross-Country Trip, Without (Many) Superchargers

Basically, I believe that as long as the cost of charging is disclosed up front, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."

 

[Rheazombi]

Zombi, the owner isn't a NYSE listed company. Apparently you've never stayed at B&B. They don't get subsidies. These people are essentially renting rooms in their homes. They don't make a lot of money at it, they do it because they like the people aspect of it.

To have people leave reviews like that is a powerful disincentive to them. You STILL don't get it. And worse, you are making it harder for the rest of us.

Yes I stay at B&Bs all the time. If a B&B can't afford to install a charger without ripping customers off who want to use it, then don't install it. It's absolutely absurd to require someone to pay 30 or 45 bucks to use potentially 3 bucks of electricity. You can recoup your losses on a 500 buck installation without making some poor sap pay basically %10 of the total cost of installation to charge his car there ONCE. are you kidding me?? Your idea of what is fair play would hurt EV owners more in the long run.

Besides, poor defenseless B&Bs are hardly what OP was dealing with when they ripped him off WITHOUT any warning.

Edit: also, I think you really misunderstand what I meant by subsidies. Tesla has been offering hotels of all types huge discounts on equipment and installation to act as destination charging spots. This has nothing to do with federal subsidies or the stock market.

 

[jerry33]

Yes I stay at B&Bs all the time. If a B&B can't afford to install a charger without ripping customers off who want to use it, then don't install it. It's absolutely absurd to require someone to pay 30 or 45 bucks to use potentially 3 bucks of electricity.

I agree $30+ is excessive--if it's for each night. If it's for each stay of up to a week, then that's better than fine. The B&B where I often stay charges $10 per night for charging. I don't begrudge them that because of the convenience, and they had to pay to put in the 14-50. Yes, after two years they've made their investment back but their entitled to a profit.

 

[Chrisizzle]

Nobody is going to install EVSE equipment if there is no incentive to do so.

Except, most do. On this 3,000km journey with a half dozen hotels, Marriott was the only location with a fee. In the short six months I have owned my Tesla travelling southern Ontario, I have only paid one other time (a Chargepoint automated plug in a parking garage for $1 per hour).

It would appear to me that getting the customer in the door (and perhaps the PR of being 'green') is all the incentive required for most.


As an entrepreneur myself, I find it naive to see other EV drivers hesitate to criticize lest other hotels not install chargers. I would see it as an opportunity to steal unhappy customers from my competition. Case in point, Thanks to Liz G above for providing an alternate hotel in the area with complimentary charging.

 

[Subhuman]

I am not defending either position (free or charge) but these are the facts:

- the hotel does not have to install the charger
- you do not have to stay there or charge there
- If enough hotels install chargers to compete with each other the free market will eventually work out the kicks

You as the costumer always has a choice. If you don't like you options take your business somewhere else. As has been said previously the only thing the hotel did wrong was improper communication of the charging fees. I would be angry if the fees where not properly disclosed however I am not angry with the hotel for making a decision on how to use their equipment whether tesla helped subsidize it or not. They went to the effort to install the charger and can do what they wish with it.

 

[liuping]

Your $.40/kWh claim is a red herring. The national avg is 11 cents and the highest I have ever seen was around 20 cents.

It's hardly a "Red Herring". Rates in San Diego start at $.17 /kWh for the lowest tier (not enough to run an average house.) it's $.42 for the top tier, which is basically a moderate size house with AC. San Diego is not even the highest rates. The cost of electricity for fully charging Tesla is not trivial. As far as mark ups go it's less than on a can of Coke from the vending machine.

At this point I think it's better to encourage the hotels to add chargers. Once there are more of them in place, they can start using them for competitive advantage. Just like it worked with Wifi. None had free internet/wifi connections at first, now many do. Demanding free charging (which is far more expensive than free wifi to provide) will only discourage them from installing chargers.

I don't understand the feeling that EV charging should be free. I never stayed at a hotel and expected them to fill my gas tank up over night in the old days. Why do people expect they should get free charging now?

 

[Rheazombi]

It's a red herring because you assume everyone has astronomically high rates and therefore ALL arbitrary fees are suddenly A-OK.

In your world, every destination charger would be 30 bucks, regardless of energy actually used. Basically the cost of a full tank of gas. Except with gas, you only pay for what you actually put into your car. It isn't an arbitrary flat rate. So in this scenario, driving an EV is now WORSE and LESS convenient than owning a gas car. Is this really the world you want to live in? Every hotel billing EV drivers up the wazoo and the only "competition" between them is who is fleecing you the least? "Oh, this hotel charges me $40 to charge. I only need 40 miles though. Maybe I'll drive across town. That other hotel only charges $38". Cus that's how the free market thinks, especially if hotels think they can get away with it. Congrats, the entire concept of destination charging is now completely irrelevant.

Edit: @eyesurgeon vvvv - this isn't about free electricity. This is about ripping customers off and charging them for electricity they aren't even using, and especially not disclosing it until after the fact which is beyond shady.

 

[eye.surgeon]

What makes someone feel entitled to free electricity. Even Tesla charges for use of their superchargers, are you going to leave them a bad review?

 

[stevezzzz]

I think you've lost perspective, Rheazombi. The sky is not falling. Most people drive 90% or more of their miles charging only at home. Superchargers cover a good portion of the rest, Chademo is becoming more prevalent and RV parks and destination charging fills in the gaps.

The infrastructure is immature and businesspeople deciding whether to install EVSEs are feeling their way forward. When you need a charge and there's only one viable option, you may have to pay more than you think is fair. But in the big picture it's small potatoes, and in my experience the average business owner who offers charging is more than fair. Many will negotiate, especially if it's new territory for them. As more and more EVs hit the highways and more and more destinations offer multiple charging sites in a given area, prices will normalize through competitive pressures.

 

[markb1]

Maybe I'm missing something, but the OP knew about the $15 fee to charge, and ended up paying $20 for two charges. Sounds like a $10 discount to me.

Personally, I'd be happy to pay $15-$20 to fill up during a road trip. Beats paying for gas.

 

[Dbitter1]

Certainly, there are costs for the install, and for ongoing electricity, and it is the right of the property owner to charge something for it. When I've traveled to EV heaven (SF-SJ Valley), nearly every hotel I've stayed at had charging... via Chargepoint or some other non-free option.

But... we have this economic theory called capitalism... and if the Motel 6 down the road had a window AC unit on a 6-20 or 6-30 outlet (yes, I know most are 6-15) and said "yeah, go ahead" guess which one I'd probably pick. (I have a very large Frankenplug collection, it was one of my hobbies while waiting for my car).

Someday, when water is $1/gal in some of these places, these people will start thinking about encouraging that which puts an end to the horrors of dead dinosaur recycling...

 

[Canuck]

I feel bad for the hotel manager having to respond to this complaint. I don't buy the OP's excuse that he also complained about the room in his review (after he received many negative replies). I also find it odd that he posts the reply but not his complaint. I'm writing this on a cruise ship where I just paid $250 for wifi for 10 days. $20 buys nothing in gas. Why expect it to be free? We all know there's no such thing as a free lunch. There's also no mystery in the fact that two people can stay at the same hotel, resort, cruise, etc. and some post positive reviews while others post negative ones. That's why internet reviews can be so unfair at times. If I owned a hotel, put in a HPWC, then charged a measly $15, and only $5 to the same guy again on his return, and got a negative review about it, I'd be telling other hotels owners not to bother putting in a HPWC -- and I'd understand the "Tesla entitlement attitude" critics. And it's no excuse to say "it's a big chain". This manager obviously takes pride in his work, even though he's not the owner. He took the time to reply and did it respectfully and with more sense than the complaint. It all comes down to the old saying that "you just can't please some people". Plus, a variant on that other old saying "the customer is NOT always right.