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For those who were not convinced by the "death by" C19 or "death with"...
In red you have the average deaths in 2020, in Italy.
In blu you have the average deaths in 2015-2019
Source: Dopo Codogno in Italia si muore di più

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Another vaccine shows promise and is about to enter clinical trials. At least a year away, if successful. COVID-19 vaccine candidate shows promise in first peer-reviewed research

Yes that is encouraging and I think it's smart to go after the S protein from what I understand compared to the mRNA or other RNA targets. I've forgotten the details but there have been vaccination experiences against other respiratory viruses where rechallenge with the virus when the vaccine was based on RNA produced extensive lung pathology. Have to dig that reference out. And why the S protein forms a better epitope then RNA is above my immunological pay grade for sure! Perhaps @dkp_Duke has some insight into this?
 
I don't see the second wave being a major problem in the US since we already let it spread basically everywhere. If our goal with lockdown was to flatten the curve, should we not be ready to selectively reopen the week after Easter(11 days from now)?

Not one of these Trumpers demanding we go back to work, just seems logical. We clearly aren't having a major impact on infections, spread is going to be near total regardless, and if this is effective the curve will have been flattened by then, so what's the point of extending?

By end of next week, incremental domestic violence deaths alone will be creeping up on any incremental mortality from a tiered return to normal.

The SF Bay Area had one of the earliest shelter at home orders and it has been extended to at least May 3 already. The likelihood of the order getting lifted sooner is probably close to zero. And most of the rest of the country moved later so will take longer to get it under control.

Manufacturers like Tesla may be able to negotiate exceptions to the orders at some point (with appropriate precautions) but my expectation is Tesla Fremont will be closed at least for the month of April.
 
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Most right thinking people are now well on the road to accepting the scale of the public health crisis. Despite his early very public displays of Denial and Anger, even Donald seems to be getting there. Without hard intervention we were likely looking at world war level casualties. In some less developed countries that is still sadly on the table.

But what is the price for that intervention? I think we’re heading through the same process all over again with respect to the economic impact of the crisis.

The scale and rapidity of job losses we’re seeing throughout most of the world is as far as I am aware, without precedent. And we are only two to three weeks into the process in most of the West.

The cashflow squeeze to businesses large and small is on another level entirely to 2008 and the various government lending schemes are unlikely to much help anyone but those that did not need to borrow. Without the near universal “extend and pretend” we’re seeing from lenders, delinquency rates in loan portfolios would blow through any stress test a financial regulator would care to throw at a bank. The stability of the financial system will soon depend on tax payers either directly bailing out the banks, or as is being attempted in some places, an indirect bail out by taking huge swathes of commercial lending onto the government’s balance sheet (albeit largely in the form of contingent liabilities).

The coming contraction in GDP reminds me of my studies in Ancient Classics, when entire cities would sometimes be suddenly scrubbed from the map in conflict. From the perspective of GDP, that’s the equivalent of what we’re seeing in most major nations. The equivalent of their main economic centres being removed from the game before calculating national economic output. With a cheery wave from almost everybody not to worry, it’ll all somehow be all ok come October, companies will bounce back just fine.

Sure, physical capital is not being destroyed like in a war. But the economic dislocation of human capital we’re seeing, is arguably more egregious in the largely knowledge based economies of the Western world.

The scale of the health crisis for covid was almost universally missed by observers due to quite understandable psychological defence mechanisms. Normalcy bias, optimism bias, cognitive dissonance. Whichever you choose to focus on. Those of us that realised early enough were able to prepare ourselves practically and financially. And for those that trade, to profit.

Now the pending economic crisis is being almost completely ignored by most observers, who instead choose to pass comparison to 1998, 1987, or the more bearish to 2008. Well this isn’t any of those. And there’s a horrific possibility it’s something beyond most people’s ability to conceive.

I’ve been absent from this forum for a few weeks but it staggers me there are still those on the main board who are seeing the rise and fall in TSLA in glorious isolation to what is happening in the rest of the world. “It’s short sellers... it’s journalists... it’s manipulation”. No doubt there will be much disquiet at what at the time of writing seems to be the scrubbing out of After Hours gains post the P&D report.

But the smack that TSLA and everything else has received these weeks, is nothing to what it will feel like if the market adopts the view that we face a depression that blows away anything found in the history books.

I still think Tesla will emerge from this crisis stronger. But there are risks that were not there only 3 months ago. Tesla make cars. Luxury ones at that. Doesn’t matter how good their product is, this crisis is going to whack demand. Maybe they’ll get a juicy loan package from the government. But this crisis is still likely to set the mission back by years not months.

My personal base case now is that the health crisis will not come close to being resolved until sometime in mid to late 2021. Maybe a positive black swan will positively surprise me. But I hear from health professionals in the Infectious Disease unit to expect rolling waves of infection into that timeframe. And there’s a very high likelihood of these waves being accompanied with continued social distancing and blockage of economic activity. Who knows in such a scenario when the economic crisis itself bottoms.

However I am not trading my view. And I freely admit that my view is relatively fringe right now. The positions I took in Phase 1 of the crisis were sufficient to cover the economic needs of my family for two years and I am safely in government backed cash, with some inflation protection. Right now it’s too hard to predict the timing of the market’s realisation but more importantly it causes too much psychological disturbance to bet against the market when it means you’re also betting against humanity. Makes you feel a bit dirty, like how Chanos must feel every morning.

I post this because this place is a brain trust and I want you to rip the macro bear view to pieces. With reason and logic, rather than hope.
The analogy I would use is WWII. At the peak of the war effort the UK was spending 52% of GDP on the military, they were litterally producing things to be destroyed. How is that different than just shutting half the economy down?
 
Wuhan is a major travel/transportation point in that area of the country and when China moved to lock down the city within a certain radius of the city borders it shut all transportation down. That didn’t happen anywhere here in the U.S. We can’t even get a consensus of getting all of our States to order a stay-in-place order. I’m not confident in the slightest that there won’t be reinfections across the U.S. once a wave has passed. Wish I could feel differently. We will still have a large population of uninfected people sheltered away that will be at high risk. With vaccines/antibody treatments months and maybe a year or more away, tested and massively distributed I just don’t see the worse ending with this first wave of people getting and dying from it.
 
Here is a summary of NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital's update from yesterday:

In New York, unless the Javits center takes covid patients it’s not a great option for us.

We are increasing our ICU capacity to 1100 beds.

We are approaching the peak of this which we think will be the next week or two. We still have a ways to go before we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

1,900 inpatients, 487 on ventilators (25%). We took a few patients from other hospitals yesterday, and we were able to transfer 2 patients to the USS Comfort.

There are still no clear treatments for patients.

We are currently using 100,000 masks per day across the enterprise. We are getting more supplies which we are thankful for.

Ventilator capacity: we are fortunate that our anesthesia teams can modify the vents so we can use those.

We have 800 vents, but we need more vents.

Capacity: we are looking to expand on areas that are close to our campuses. Potentially use Bakers Field. A few years ago Columbia put a bubble over the field. We think it’s a promising space, and then we can decide which of our patients we can actually move there. We are going to have to do this to create the capacity for the next few weeks.

Do you have a link to this update please? The Tesla Owners Club of NYS is looking for the names of NY hospitals that need ventilators to pass on to Tesla. Tesla is making them in Buffalo right now to donate.
 
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Page 425, wow ... is this thread accepting the narrative that the virus is more than a flu, UK dropped Covid19 from HCID list - and the more I read the more I feel this is hyteria without foundation - I use this daily updated summary which has a contrarian narrative: Facts about Covid-19. What's the TMC consensus on C19?

EDIT: IMHO if this contrarian narrative is getting dominant as more time shows martality to be low, then a spring-loaded V recovery should be in the cards
 
Page 425, wow ... is this thread accepting the narrative that the virus is more than a flu, UK dropped Covid19 from HCID list - and the more I read the more I feel this is hyteria without foundation - I use this daily updated summary which has a contrarian narrative: Facts about Covid-19. What's the TMC consensus on C19?

EDIT: IMHO if this contrarian narrative is getting dominant as more time shows martality to be low, then a spring-loaded V recovery should be in the cards

We first have to take care of spring-loaded idiocy.
 
Page 425, wow ... is this thread accepting the narrative that the virus is more than a flu, UK dropped Covid19 from HCID list - and the more I read the more I feel this is hyteria without foundation - I use this daily updated summary which has a contrarian narrative: Facts about Covid-19. What's the TMC consensus on C19?

EDIT: IMHO if this contrarian narrative is getting dominant as more time shows martality to be low, then a spring-loaded V recovery should be in the cards
Even if in the passage of time, demographic statisticians establish the mortality rate of CV-19 substantially below the circa 1% talked of by most, you need to explain how you think a V-Shaped recovery will materialise given the hydrogen bombs that have already been detonated in the world‘s labour markets and to corporate cashflow.
 
The analogy I would use is WWII. At the peak of the war effort the UK was spending 52% of GDP on the military, they were litterally producing things to be destroyed. How is that different than just shutting half the economy down?

We were trying to build up industry not tear it down. There is already talk by politicians to enact laws that will make it harder for the businesses that remain to continue with operations.

BTW - WWII destroyed Britain financially. They had rationing well after the war ended. They went from the #1 economic powerhouse in 1939 to what they are today. Many in the US, especially politicians, see that as a good path to follow. Wrecked economy, government owned industries, draconian laws. They make a living by feeding off turmoil, and do not want the US to prosper.
 
I don't see the second wave being a major problem in the US since we already let it spread basically everywhere.

Just providing the screen capture from the (dubious, due to its slight optimism, and the methods/assumptions) IHME model - again, this is assuming about 100k deaths from the ~3% of the population with the infection.

Screen Shot 2020-04-03 at 9.49.55 AM.png


We clearly aren't having a major impact on infections,

We're having a huge, huge impact on infections. The issue is it takes a few weeks to show. The other issue is that we waited far too long. Each additional day we waited probably added about 20% more infections.
 
Even if in the passage of time, demographic statisticians establish the mortality rate of CV-19 substantially below the circa 1% talked of by most, you need to explain how you think a V-Shaped recovery will materialise given the hydrogen bombs that have already been detonated in the world‘s labour markets and to corporate cashflow.

I'm focusing on stockmarket not real economy - atm I sense a narrative shift at some groups, if the narrative shifts enough stock market will front-run any real economy changes ... I sense that the narrative here is pretty alligned with the official one, which is fine ... I'm still reading through the pages and it's interesting how for example the page I linked does not use deaths/million at all, probably doesn't fit the narrative there.

On the other hand, the last pages in this thread do compare death counts between countries that do have totally different death percentages on the regular yearly flu - i.e. italy vs. austria for example ....
 
We were trying to build up industry not tear it down. There is already talk by politicians to enact laws that will make it harder for the businesses that remain to continue with operations.

BTW - WWII destroyed Britain financially. They had rationing well after the war ended. They went from the #1 economic powerhouse in 1939 to what they are today. Many in the US, especially politicians, see that as a good path to follow. Wrecked economy, government owned industries, draconian laws. They make a living by feeding off turmoil, and do not want the US to prosper.
We're not tearing down industry. Do you think that when the Fremont factory reopens it will no longer be able to build cars? We have the additional advantage over WWII that the factory is unlikely to be bombed.
 
Now that Q1 P&D is behind us, I want to focus on what we think will go on for rest of the year in terms of
- Fremont, Nevada and GF3 factories producing cars
- What happens to the economy which will have an impact on demand
- What happens to the stock market

My sense is that Musk and also the stock market think
- This will all blow over in a month or two
- Q2 will be bad
- Rest of the year will be normal (i.e. no lockdowns because of Covid)

Is the above correct (from watching CNBC etc, which I don't) ?

My guess is we'll have cases/fatalities going up and down in waves as various states try to loosen/tighten restrictions throughout the year.
- Lockdown in April, with selective opening in May
- More opening in June, but we'll start seeing a second wave
- Some things get closed again by mid of July/August
- Re-opening in September (including schools)
- Big 3rd wave in October
- Lockdown reintroduced in Nov/Dec
 
Was your wife wearing PPE at work ?

If not then she failed on the basics, and likely infected countless others if she is now infected.

PPE?!?! She's working in a RETAIL pharmacy. She had to buy her own _surgical_ masks! I won't name the retailer, since the others were no different. The irony of it all is that they've just decided yesterday to install plexiglass screens. When those will get installed, who knows. But yes, failures all around.
 
We're not tearing down industry. Do you think that when the Fremont factory reopens it will no longer be able to build cars? We have the additional advantage over WWII that the factory is unlikely to be bombed.

The talk is to put more restrictions in place before letting the economy restart. Listen to Congress and the California Governor's comments.
I'm not a hundred percent convinced this is a good thing for the EV industry. We will off-load even more to Asia as more companies do what they have to in order to survive.
 
The talk is to put more restrictions in place before letting the economy restart. Listen to Congress and the California Governor's comments.
I'm not a hundred percent convinced this is a good thing for the EV industry. We will off-load even more to Asia as more companies do what they have to in order to survive.
There will definitely be more restrictions, how else will we stop the spread?
Countries in Asia have exactly the same problem though. China has already shown itself willing to use extreme restrictions to stop the spread.