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Coronavirus

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#30,681
Tiger said:
What voluntary vaccinations can I get which have weakened pathogen? (half serious, at least considering)
Click to expand...
This one uses a spike protein in the traditional manner:

www.fda.gov

Novavax COVID-19 Vaccine, Adjuvanted

Novavax COVID-19 Vaccine, Adjuvanted (2023-2024 Formula) Authorized For Individuals 12 Years of Age and Older
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov

It's not a weakened virus, more like a piece of dead virus.
 
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#30,686
DrGriz said:
Patience! It is happening. But sometimes science is hard!
Click to expand...
Hopefully. Let’s see results in six months. This should be happening at warp speed.
DrGriz said:
But you can't give a test person a vaccine and then intentionally expose them to the virus! It's called ethics
Click to expand...
Was not suggesting that. Not sure why you think I suggested that.
DrGriz said:
. So you develop one and you give it to volunteers (after you've tested it in other models) and then you wait for them to be exposed naturally and you see how well it works. They probably won't be exposed though until the anticipated dominant strain shows up in numbers.
Click to expand...
Note that we are NOT doing this, for the latest COVID vaccines (main point of my original post).

We are not testing the vaccines. I would not mind an RCT in parallel with a rollout - as long as we are trying to get data eventually (just takes a few months as for original Warp Speed).

As it is, we won’t get RCT data - we’ll just get much more imperfect retrospective analysis, however they do that (variety of much less attractive methods which take longer).

I am of the opinion these vaccines should be tested for efficacy. I know it is not something we do for flu. But COVID is still a bit worse than flu, so the disease is a bit different, so there is justification for testing being different too.
 
#30,687
Wastewater switch -- KATELYN JETELINA NOV 2, 2023
A change is brewing in the public health world about wastewater. And there’s a lot of misinformation circulating.
...
Verily vs. Biobot
This summer, Biobot’s contract was up for renewal. But other companies threw their names in the ring. In September, a big surprise was unveiled: Verily (not Biobot) got the contract.

Verily is an arm of Google’s parent company, Alphabet. They have conducted wastewater testing at ~300 sites (none overlapping with CDC) throughout the pandemic and supported Stanford’s WWScan to display data.
...
Bottom line
There is a substantial switch happening with wastewater surveillance in the U.S. Will this impact you and me? Not really. But the confusion and switch timing is certainly not ideal, given this is the respiratory season.
 
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#30,688
DrGriz said:
But it is a huge undertaking and it takes months to ramp up a given version.
Click to expand...

That is the thing that puzzles me. At this point, my understanding is that it does not take that long. How long does the entire manufacturing process take from start to finish for the current chosen vaccine? That’s approximate how fast they can produce a new vaccine version. (Plus a week to come up with the new one and make sure the sequence is right, and expedited one month or whatever for CDC & FDA approval.)

(I’m neglecting the time it takes to distribute - which was completely botched for this latest booster - I think because the government (HHS) was not involved, but not sure about the reason for it. But this could clearly be pretty quick. Sometimes when you want things done quick you gotta get the feds involved! Also this can be done in parallel with CDC/FDA approval.)
 
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#30,689
AlanSubie4Life said:
That is the thing that puzzles me. At this point, my understanding is that it does not take that long. How long does the entire manufacturing process take from start to finish for the current chosen vaccine? That’s approximate how fast they can produce a new vaccine version. (Plus a week to come up with the new one and make sure the sequence is right, and expedited one month or whatever for CDC & FDA approval.)

(I’m neglecting the time it takes to distribute - which was completely botched for this latest booster - I think because the government (HHS) was not involved, but not sure about the reason for it. But this could clearly be pretty quick. Sometimes when you want things done quick you gotta get the feds involved! Also this can be done in parallel with CDC/FDA approval.)
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This article (possibly paywalled) basically says 60 days. It walks through the steps.

www.nytimes.com

How Pfizer Makes Its Covid-19 Vaccine (Published 2021)

Behind the scenes from starter cells to a finished vaccine.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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#30,690
DrGriz said:
This article (possibly paywalled) basically says 60 days. It walks through the steps.

www.nytimes.com

How Pfizer Makes Its Covid-19 Vaccine (Published 2021)

Behind the scenes from starter cells to a finished vaccine.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
Yep, that was my impression.

Yet somehow we have to wait 1 year between booster updates. It's very odd. Make it 3-4 months (can't really be faster for immunological reasons, I gather)! People don't have to get them every 3-4 months, but at least the booster isn't terribly stale after 6 months, if you update it.
 
#30,691
AlanSubie4Life said:
Yep, that was my impression.

Yet somehow we have to wait 1 year between booster updates. It's very odd. Make it 3-4 months (can't really be faster for immunological reasons, I gather)! People don't have to get them every 3-4 months, but at least the booster isn't terribly stale after 6 months, if you update it.
Click to expand...
it may be impossible to match each new vaccine update to the variants circulating at the time it is released, explains Scott Roberts, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious diseases specialist. “But we know from experience that the vaccines hold up very well, even against multiple variants, unless there is a significant shift like we saw with Delta to Omicron in the winter of 2021,” he says. “Basically, if you have some immunity to a variant and are exposed to a new offshoot of it, you’ll have some protection.”
Click to expand...

www.yalemedicine.org

The Updated COVID Vaccines Are Here: 10 Things to Know

The FDA approved updated (2023–2024 formula) COVID-19 vaccines, which are expected to keep more people from getting seriously ill with the virus, including recent strains EG.5 and BA.2.86.
www.yalemedicine.org www.yalemedicine.org

I think that this is the main reason. Not much to be gained from vaccinating against small shifts. I think if we saw a major shift in strains they'd do it more often, but we've been dealing with omicron variants for the last couple of years.
 
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#30,692
DrGriz said:
Not much to be gained from vaccinating against small shifts.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we have no idea, since we no longer test for efficacy.

For some vulnerable people, the most robust protection is important.

I bet there is room for a more optimal approach.

Unfortunately, we just have to guess and bet, since we do not measure.
 
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#30,694
AlanSubie4Life said:
Unfortunately we have no idea, since we no longer test for efficacy.

For some vulnerable people, the most robust protection is important.

I bet there is room for a more optimal approach.

Unfortunately, we just have to guess and bet, since we do not measure.
Click to expand...
Right now testing for efficacy is difficult. We don't have many Covid "virgins" (present company excepted), as so many have been previously vaccinated to varying degrees AND infected, also to varying degrees. The residual group is exceptional. Hard to determine efficacy in the milieu. I wish we had better information as well.
 
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#30,700
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