JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes low information individuals came into the thread and took it off course. For the first time in a very long time I've added to my ignore list.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
I'm not a regular visitor of this thread, so I wasn't aware of what one of the other moderators posted yesterday. I've now read his post and there certainly is no promise that this thread would not be moderated. He only reaffirmed what was said before: that it is not currently moderated and that it’s unlikely it will be moderated. That feels more like: no moderator wants to touch it, not even with a ten foot pole.
But given the large number of complaints about political bickering and OT posts I would like to give it a try. After a while I may come to the conclusion that it's not worth my time and effort, but we'll see. And about closing the thread: that would only be a last resort and not something very likely to happen.
Apparently a pair of Pfizer shots followed by a J&J booster gives (slightly) better immunity than three shots of Pfizer. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267198v1.full.pdf
Mix-and-match J&J Covid booster raised immune response after Pfizer vaccine, study finds | CNN
Using the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as a booster for people initially immunized with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine produces a strong immune response and may do more to elicit protection against severe disease, researchers reported Sunday.www.cnn.com
It makes sense to me that mixing vaccines would be better than repeating the same ones. I got my booster early (I qualified because of my age) so I had no choice: Pfizer all three shots. But if I had a choice I'd get any of the others in order to increase the variety of antibodies I'd be getting. I'd get a Moderna now and a J&J in a week if I could. There's just no down side.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
There is a downside, although small. J&J side effect profile is more substantial than either of the mRNA vaccines.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
The side effects IMO are more than worth the advantages. At worst, the side effects can knock you out of commission for a couple of days. That's well worth it for even a slight increase in protection. And since the J&J vaccine is an entirely different kind of vaccine than Pfizer & Moderna, I'd expect the improvement in protection gained by including it in the mix to be substantial.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Not true. J&J is an adenoviral-based vaccine, with a non-zero chance of blood clots. It's a known complication of all adenoviral-based COVID vaccines (we don't know why, but it's observed).
Personally, I took 3 doses of Moderna and passed on the J&J. Not advice, make up your own mind, but given that there are better vaccines available, I probably won't touch J&J. Will wait for a Moderna booster against variants before I take the J&J.
@Right_Said_Fred
Thats exactly what it meant. People would routinely make political statements, or other sort of statements that many would find polarizing (from both sides of the original thread title discussion) then, report the "other side" for making "fake news statements" or having "incorrect facts".
No one is going to change anyones mind on these topics, and I really dont get people wanting to discuss this here on "TeslaMotorsClub", but there obviously is a desire to do so. Reports were being made (many times by people in the middle of a discussion, then reporting "the other person".
I personally would have closed this thread a long time ago, which likely would not be a popular thing to do, but instead of doing that I punted to letting people know that I would only mediate extreme cases, because I have no desire AT ALL to mediate a discussion on this topic. I only visit this particular thread when there is a report from it.
My last re-post in this thread was because, again, people were participating in a discussion, then reporting "the other person" and if I started moving posts, that would have been never ending. I personally like your current stance better.
Last edited:
This thread is where I get the information I trust about COVID. While everyone here, including me, has a point of view (bias), they don't have a profit motive, which can't be said for main stream media. And their job doesn't depend on what they say (CDC and State Health Departments). And it's pretty easy to tell by reading the posts for awhile who has the background and who doesn't. So, yeah, I'd be rather upset if this thread was closed down. It's far easier to click on the ignore button when trolls arrive (and I really only have a very few ignores).
Well, not necessarily - you have to read the article to get the nuance:This seems to dispute what I said above.Oops.
So if the Twitter data from above is catching the peak, then yeah, both data points can be correct.
That said, I would still opt for a mRNA vaccine over the traditional J&J. Mixing and matching the mRNA vaccines seems to be the best way to go, though sticking with one or the other seem to be very good as well - I would recommend that you get the vaccines you can get. And if you can only get the J & J for some reason - get that.
Edit: One thing to note w/the Twitter post above is that the booster was done with the 100 mcg dose and not the 50 mcg dose that was approved for boosters (unless you are immuno-compromised or 65+, I believe). So the effects of the Moderna booster may not be quite as good for the rest of the population.
Last edited:
Since I'm not going to lie to get any medical treatment, I won't be getting any vaccines that are not authorized for my age, health, etc. But I do get every vaccine my doctor or the local health authorities offer me.
Thanks.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Explaining the (mild) disagree:
While I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that this thread should remain focused on corona, and the last few pages have been a disaster in that regard, I disagreed with this post specifically because the idea that we can't mention the name of politicians (in the context that they are doing or have done certain things, factually) is frankly a bit silly. I'm not going to be censoring myself and worrying about when I say any of these terms. There's a clear line between mentioning them, and "editorializing" further as some have done here recently, to the detriment of the thread, so I won't think twice about using these terms when appropriate.
Meanwhile, lots of buzz today about Omicron being perhaps "less severe." Again, very difficult to have clarity on what that means in the context of a population where the virus is no longer "novel."
(Paywall most likely...)
Omicron Is Fast Moving, but Perhaps Less Severe, Early Reports Suggest (Published 2021)
Researchers in South Africa, where the variant is spreading quickly, say it may cause less serious Covid cases than other forms of the virus, but it is unclear whether that will hold true.
So we definitely have to wait and see, and even if it is intrinsically less severe (I hope so!), we may still have hospital loading problems (this can be a borderline problem for severe flu seasons - and I think it's unlikely that even an attenuated virus with a mostly immune (from severe disease, not infection) population will lead to a more minor result than that, based on what we know - but I hope I'm wrong). Especially in a completely unmitigated environment which is increasingly becoming the norm everywhere.
Hopefully we see the serious growth of omicron postponed until February or later when perhaps Delta will be done. But that seems like a lot to hope for based on what we're seeing elsewhere. Depends strongly on how well vaccines & boosters work. Apparently we're going to know more about that by the middle of next week for pseudo virus, and end of next week for live virus. If they don't compare two-dose to three-dose I'm going to be really upset!
Got a holiday party in a poorly ventilated restaurant at the end of this week! Guess I'll be testing that booster! Omicron isn't really a concern of course (could happen but very unlikely). As far as I can tell, they're not doing rapid testing, or taking any other reasonable precautions (though vaccination for our office is mandatory, and we've been working on-site for several months, and it's been a couple months since our last case - none of which have resulted in further spread...). My guess is they'd do rapid testing if it weren't so difficult to get large quantities of tests, and reduce the risk a little bit. Not going to happen though.
Last edited:
I'm assuming "less severe" means less severity of acute respiratory symptoms that would require hospitalization and less lethality. If we can get this to the same general severity as flu then we could go back to normal life. Of course we still have no idea what the long term effects of Omicron are so maybe more cases with less severe acute symptoms and less hospitalizations and hopefully no worse or better with chronic symptoms. And most of all hopefully vaccines continue to be effective against new versions. But this virus does what it wants so who knows what the future holds.Explaining the (mild) disagree:
While I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that this thread should remain focused on corona, and the last few pages have been a disaster in that regard, I disagreed with this post specifically because the idea that we can't mention the name of politicians (in the context that they are doing or have done certain things, factually) is frankly a bit silly. I'm not going to be censoring myself and worrying about when I say any of these terms. There's a clear line between mentioning them, and "editorializing" further as some have done here recently, to the detriment of the thread, so I won't think twice about using these terms when appropriate.
Meanwhile, lots of buzz today about Omicron being perhaps "less severe." Again, very difficult to have clarity on what that means in the context of a population where the virus is no longer "novel."
(Paywall most likely...)
Omicron Is Fast Moving, but Perhaps Less Severe, Early Reports Suggest (Published 2021)
Researchers in South Africa, where the variant is spreading quickly, say it may cause less serious Covid cases than other forms of the virus, but it is unclear whether that will hold true.www.nytimes.com
So we definitely have to wait and see, and even if it is intrinsically less severe (I hope so!), we may still have hospital loading problems (this can be a borderline problem for severe flu seasons - and I think it's unlikely that even an attenuated virus with a mostly immune (from severe disease, not infection) population will lead to a more minor result than that, based on what we know - but I hope I'm wrong). Especially in a completely unmitigated environment which is increasingly becoming the norm everywhere.
Hopefully we see the serious growth of omicron postponed until February or later when perhaps Delta will be done. But that seems like a lot to hope for based on what we're seeing elsewhere. Depends strongly on how well vaccines & boosters work. Apparently we're going to know more about that by the middle of next week for pseudo virus, and end of next week for live virus. If they don't compare two-dose to three-dose I'm going to be really upset!
Got a holiday party in a poorly ventilated restaurant at the end of this week! Guess I'll be testing that booster! Omicron isn't really a concern of course (could happen but very unlikely). As far as I can tell, they're not doing rapid testing, or taking any other reasonable precautions (though vaccination for our office is mandatory, and we've been working on-site for several months, and it's been a couple months since our last case - none of which have resulted in further spread...). My guess is they'd do rapid testing if it weren't so difficult to get large quantities of tests, and reduce the risk a little bit. Not going to happen though.
Good luck at your party and stay cautious.
I don’t want to clutter up this thread with posts about moderating, but feel I need to clarify. In the Investor Thread the discussion tends to derail as soon as politicians or political parties are mentioned, so we’ve been forced to become very strict. Maybe here’s it’s different, so I guess we can try with some more leniency. Let’s see how it goes.
Might really be testing that booster...
Nearly 70 Spanish medics Covid positive after Christmas party
"Almost 70 medics who attended a large Christmas party in southern Spain have since tested positive for Covid-19, authorities say.
Most of the 68 infected are doctors and nurses working in the intensive care unit at Málaga's regional hospital.
Health authorities said they were all at a party attended by about 170 people last Wednesday.
All guests returned negative antigen tests before the event but more than half are now isolating.
The infected staff were all fully vaccinated and are showing no symptoms, health authorities said.
...
The outbreak has heightened concerns about the risk of spreading Covid at social events during the Christmas period.
To mitigate this risk, health authorities in Andalusia had advised hospital staff not to attend Christmas parties.
On Monday, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez urged people to remain wary of Covid over the holidays."
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yep. Though that article lacks clarity on the booster status - which is key - I wouldn't be surprised by this result at all in a non-boosted environment. But these are medical workers so you'd think they'd be boosted - who knows though. It also says they aren't showing symptoms (which I somewhat doubt is universally true for all those infected).
Also shows that antigen tests are pretty imperfect. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good!
I definitely am not impressed with the degree of laissez-faire associated with this holiday party (no discussion of precautions or reminders about not showing up if you have any known contacts, etc.), but I also don't really have qualms about going, and have work reasons for doing so - also I'm healthy and boosted, and likely Omicron is not currently an issue in this area. And I have 7 days after the event before I am going to associate with anyone vulnerable (an infection would definitely mess up my holiday plans though). San Diego County cases are trending down (~400 per day, about 25% in vaccinated individuals, AFAICT) which is not good - we need to flatten the curve, and we all have to do our part!
The recent political dust up got more heated than usual. The problem with COVID is that the story is interlinked with politics, not just in the US, but it's probably worst in the US. We have been able to discuss factual, political information without it turning into a mud slinging contest in the past.
Maybe the recent dust up was because the conversation had some new people joining in, or maybe somebody was having a bad day and lashed out instead of a more measured response.
There is just wayyyyyyy too much emphasis on positive test results and not enough on the actual individual and their symptoms. It's like hey, let's overemphasize the positive test results to continue to instill fear in the general public in hopes that we increase the vaccine numbers. This has been going on for a long time now and obviously will continue but a lot of people have gotten used to this nonsense. Why? Just look outside. Unless you live in an isolated middle of nowhere town, people are (for the most part) back to living their normal life.
Vaccinated people continue to get infected. Big deal. That isn't going to stop. What should matter most is the numbers associated with serious and potentially fatal illnesses. People are going to continue going to functions/gatherings and aren't as concerned as they were last year. Some will continue to live a terrified and extremely reserved life thinking they're doing their part but that isn't gonna change anything. Proof is in the numbers.
Vaccinated people continue to get infected. Big deal. That isn't going to stop. What should matter most is the numbers associated with serious and potentially fatal illnesses. People are going to continue going to functions/gatherings and aren't as concerned as they were last year. Some will continue to live a terrified and extremely reserved life thinking they're doing their part but that isn't gonna change anything. Proof is in the numbers.
Similar threads
