JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Government funded Covid drug now being exploited by price gouging pharma:
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
It only applied to non-US citizens and was purely racist meat for the rabid base. Explain why nothing was being done to not only stop US travel to and from China, but nothing done to deal with people coming into this country who were visibly ill. Of course we couldn't even get a valid test together until March and heaven forbid the geniuses allow a working WHO test to be used even though there was nothing Made in the USA that was working at the time. The only nonsense is your political agenda. My mother died in a nursing home in NJ in March of 2020 and there was no test available for anyone outside of a hospital so she didn't have COVID on her death certificate. We should have done something to stop this and the US did nothing put political games. Clinical idiot criminals should not be allowed near important things like government. The cost is too great.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
That's a lie. And your link gives a 404 error (which somehow seems appropriate). The actual Trump order banned CHINESE, not "travel from China". As if yellow skin was the root problem, not a virus. US residents were free to fly to the US straight from Wuhan and spread Covid to everyone they encountered.
If you crave honest discussion, first stop lying.
Covid started in China. Smart leaders reacted swiftly and intelligently, saving countless lives. Taiwan, with 26 daily flights from Wuhan, has had 845 deaths total. Trump's grossly incompetent response resulted in nearly a million deaths.
Some related news out of the UK (no, I don't mean they had a competent response...)
Coronavirus report warned of impact on UK four years before pandemic
"Senior health officials who war-gamed the impact of a coronavirus hitting the UK, warned four years before the onset of Covid-19 of the need for stockpiles of PPE, a computerised contact tracing system and screening for foreign travellers, the Guardian can reveal.
...
The participants imagined cases of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS-CoV) arriving in London and Birmingham and spreading rapidly resulting in “a large scale outbreak”. Like Covid, MERS causes potentially fatal respiratory illness and can spread asymptomatically; there were no known treatments or vaccines.
...
Health officials involved in the 2016 coronavirus exercise believed levels of PPE were “of crucial importance for frontline staff” and “pandemic stockpiles were suggested as a means to ensure sufficient quantities were available”.
They also explicitly called for consideration of “port of entry screening” to restrict the spread of the virus from abroad, and for health officials to “produce an options plan using extant evidence and cost benefits for quarantine versus self-isolation for a range of contact types, including symptomatic, asymptomatic and high risk groups.”
The exercise also raised concerns that the UK needed better systems ready to trace the contacts of people who had the virus. They suggested “a web-based tool … a live database of contacts with classifications, current state and other data germane to the situation”
------------------------
And in a rare incident the UK government recognized and spoke the truth:
"In August the government refused to release the file saying it could “lead to loss of public confidence in the government’s and the NHS’ Covid-19 response …”
only to continue with some fib
"...based on misinterpretation of the report."
There doesn't seem anything to misinterpret.
American health experts were frustrated at every turn trying to get information out of China and get CDC teams into Wuhan to assess the situation. The Chinese were playing hide the ball from the outset. There is some evidence that it was circulating in China before they admitted it. For example satellite photos showed the parking lot at the Wuhan hospital unusually full in August 2019.
The Chinese government is obsessed with putting a pleasant face on anything. They tend to hide anything that could possibly put them in a bad light until it can't be hidden any longer, then they minimize the problem as much as possible. This is very common in the authoritarian's playbook.
It's obvious there was excess mortality. COVID contributed, but there are a lot of factors at play. In 2020 accidental deaths were way down in the US because people were driving less and there were fewer opportunities for industrial accidents. However some people died of treatable conditions because they didn't get medical care they needed. we also know that some US states were trying to keep their COVID death numbers down by not counting deaths that had other causes than just COVID on the death certificate, even though it is common to list multiple conditions that contributed to someone's death.
It's statistically almost certain that COVID deaths were under-counted in the US for 2020 and it's possible they are being under-counted in some places this year. During the peak of the recent surge in Florida they were reporting zero COVID deaths, but the body count got high enough they had to fess up and start reporting the deaths. Nebraska wasn't even reporting cases in most counties from about May to a few weeks ago, but finally had to start reporting cases. They still officially have 0 deaths per week in most counties the last few months.
Timely article given the recent discussion on the topic:
arstechnica.com
The article makes a pretty good case that getting vaccinated is warranted even if you contract COVID, primarily because an individual's antibody response to COVID infection is highly variable, leaving up to 20% of those infected with low antibody levels.
No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer
Infection does offer some immune protection—but it's unreliable compared with vaccines.
arstechnica.com
The article makes a pretty good case that getting vaccinated is warranted even if you contract COVID, primarily because an individual's antibody response to COVID infection is highly variable, leaving up to 20% of those infected with low antibody levels.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Veteran Medics and Corpsmen Are Fighting for Civilian Recognition of Their Military Training
Despite 500,000 open jobs in health care, military medical personnel are struggling to qualify in the civilian world.
The United States had a pandemic response team whose job was to make sure the country was prepared for an unexpected outbreak. Supplies, emergency plans in place, leadership preparedness, etc. It was dismantled a year or so before Covid hit the United States. So when the virus came, we had no plans in place and nobody whose job was to lead a response.
I recall reading an interview with Greg Burel who maintained the Strategic National Reserve until Jan 2020 when he retired. He said the stockpile was 100% full when he left, though the stockpile was never intended for the scale of pandemic we faced with COVID. But the distribution of the equipment in the stockpile was very uneven. The states that were hit early were blue states and they got very paltry distributions whereas when the pandemic started hitting red states they often ended up with more than was needed.
In a case of locking the barn door after the horse got out the stockpile is now much more heavily stocked with PPE than before COVID hit.
That’s inconsistent with what I’ve been reading. My understanding is that PPE was not adequately restocked and many ventilators in the reserve were not in working order because maintenance contracts had lapsed. Those problems happened under the Obama administration and were not fixed under Trump. I don’t know, but I would not be surprised if Congress failed to allocate needed funding and the executive branch failed to prioritize requests for it. The bottom line is that we have chronically underfunded and under-prioritized long-term public health preparation.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
The National stockpile was not restocked by the Obama administration after multiple national emergencies and I recall reading that the Trump administration was warned that this needed to be done. Trump even complained about it despite his being in office for over 2 years by that point. I also recall that some of the supplies of masks sent to providers were so old that the elastic was brittle and the masks were moldy so they were useless. And the Trump administration stopped maintenance on medical equipment like ventilators in the warehouses so when they were needed they didn't work. A perfect storm of stupidity, incompetence and corruption.
Fact check: Did the Obama administration deplete the federal stockpile of N95 masks?
A Ventilator Stockpile, With One Hitch: Thousands Do Not Work
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I nominate this for the most outrageous anti-vaxxer award.
Terminator857
Active Member
Rather short time frame for the chart don't you think? After only 4 months already gone down significantly. What happens if we extend that trendline?If you are aware of a study that shows a complete diminution of vaccine efficacy against Delta, then please post it, because it seems to me like you are misinterpreting something again.
Adjusted estimated vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection by variant:
This is from
Effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine up to 6 months in a large integrated health system in the USA: a retrospective cohort study
Waning immunity of the BNT162b2 vaccine: A nationwide study from Israel
Background Starting December 2020, Israel began a mass vaccination campaign against coronavirus administering the Pfizer BNT162b2 vaccine, which led to a sharp curtailing of the outbreak. After a period with almost no SARS-CoV-2 infections, a resurgent COVID-19 outbreak initiated mid June 2021...
www.medrxiv.org
Elderly individuals (60+) who received their second dose in March 2021 were 1.6 (CI: [1.3, 2]) times more protected against infection and 1.7 (CI: [1.0, 2.7]) times more protected against severe COVID-19 compared to those who received their second dose in January 2021. Similar results were found for different age groups.
Conclusions These results indicate a strong effect of waning immunity in all age groups after six months.
Terminator857
Active Member
My source was taken down. I'll search for another source.
Quote from deleted source:
A study commissioned by the US Pentagon. 5.6 million US Study of Individuals 65 years old and older show vaccines now have little benefit against Delta Variant in terms of both infections and hospitalizations. Data into August show a marked decrease in vaccine effectiveness for infections and hospitalizations. Power point link below, Page 7 shows 73 percent of infections are now occurring in the vaccinated. (box on right side) versus 80 percent vaccinated. So not much difference in population breakdown vs infection rate. Page 12 (box on right) shows hospitalizations amongst vaccinated is 61 percent of total hospitalizations vs 80 percent vaccinated. (And this hospitalization data was for the last week of July)
Terminator857
Active Member
Protection of BNT162b2 Vaccine Booster against Covid-19 in Israel - PubMed
In this study involving participants who were 60 years of age or older and had received two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine at least 5 months earlier, we found that the rates of confirmed Covid-19 and severe illness were substantially lower among those who received a booster (third) dose of the...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
We better start requiring a booster shots since decreases infection rate by 11.3. Can't have little human bio reactors running around breeding vaccine resistant covid variants.Yinon M Bar-On et al said:
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Weird. I wonder why.
A study commissioned by the US Pentagon, lol. Vaccines wane in efficacy. Even efficacy against severe disease wanes a bit (the data on that is less clear).
Boosters are advised especially in the elderly and eventually for everyone.
But there’s exactly zero evidence that the effectiveness of vaccination against severe disease tapers to anywhere near the point of being unvaccinated and Covid-naive. There’s literally zero data anyone can show indicating that vaccines wane to “zero benefit.”
Vaccines save lives and offer enduring protection. Is a third dose advisable? Yes, I think so - we should be stopping people from becoming sick, not just from becoming hospitalized. I’ve had mine! But the two-dose series is quite effective - though probably not good enough to stop Delta entirely, even at high vaccination rates.
Note that this was for age 60 and older. I’m not sure what you were referring to by little bio reactors running around. This is a special population and somewhat better results should be expected in younger groups. Eventually everyone over 20 or 30 will probably need a booster though.
Breaded Covid….yumm! Though I like it beer-battered.
Terminator857
Active Member
Other studies show similar data for other age groups:
Coronavirus
Sorry: Just the relevant start of the article. As I suspected. But we are talking about 2 different things. This is a mandate for healthcare workers, and as I've said I'm VERY much in favor of that. That should just be a job requirement. But a blanket mandate for everyone? Nope.
teslamotorsclub.com
Preliminary study posted above differs.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
We’ll see.
That’s an odds ratio comparison so it’s possible you’re just seeing a 53% increase in the number of infections in all groups, which looks very different in different groups. I can’t really tell from skimming it.
So for example you could go from 95% to 92% efficacy in the young (53% increase) vs. a 80% to 70% efficacy drop in the elderly. ~53% increase. (Though honestly I didn’t read the study closely so I’m not sure what they are saying - and they had no really good plots or tables so I stopped reading.)
In any case it’s hard to say. Eventually everyone should get boosters. But there’s also little question that every first dose of vaccine is far more effective. But if no one is taking them, definitely boosters should be given.
To be clear, I think everyone should get boosters. Vaccines work. (This is why I have stopped reading papers on breakthrough infections carefully, lol.)
I’ve got my booster and am going on with my life as I did pre-COVID. Wearing an N95 indoors as appropriate.
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