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Cold Weather Chicago?
- Thread starter KJSS4
- Start date
Midnightsun
Active Member
The slots will be horizontal and not vertical on a 220v outlet when outlet is installed upright. This will help.
I asked my mom. You are right its probably not 220v. Its probably 120. Anyhow a guy is coming next week to install a brand new outlet. So I guess we will see if we can make room from the breaker box or not.
The obvious place is to hang out at Wikipedia's entry on NEMA connectors. It's my go-to place. Going along those lines, here we are:
Note that the connectors aren't to scale; that is, a NEMA14-50 is physically larger in diameter than a NEMA5-15, and so on.
The Tesla Mobile Connector (Has a NASC/Tesla connector at one end, a longish cable, a thick part with electronics, and a socket on the thick part) has multiple adapters available that will plug into a number (but not all) of the NEMA connectors. Back in the day when Superchargers were (relatively speaking) few and far between Tesla would throw a TMC into the trunk of every car, along with adapters for a NEMA5-15 (standard 120 VAC, 15A wall socket) and a NEMA14-50, a 240 VAC often found in RV parks and the like. Maximum current on a TMC is, no matter what one plugs it into, is 32A. Taking a quick look over at Tesla's web site shows the following available adapters:
- NEMA5-15
- NEMA5-20
- NEMA6-15
- NEMA10-30
- NEMA14-30
- NEMA14-50
- NEMA6-50
And, the usual caveat: The National Electric Code (NEC) says that when there's a constant, heavy load (that's a Tesla) the maximum load is 80% of the circuit rating. So, if one is using a NEMA6-15, 80% of 15A is 12A, and that's what the car/TMC will draw when plugged into such an outlet.
So, back to your place. That socket, with the little right-angle bit on it in the wide blade, is clearly a NEMA5-20. 80% of 20A is 16A; so the maximum power you'll get out of that socket with a Tesla is 120VAC * 16A = 1920W, which as stated at that Tesla site I linked above, will give you around 4 or 5 miles of charge per hour... if it's not too cold out.
A NEMA14-50 wired to a 50A breaker will run up against the limit built into the TMC of 32A; so you'll get 240 VAC * 32A = 7680W, and about 30 miles of charge per hour.
If you get a Wall Connector that is wired to a 60A circuit (that means adding a 240 VAC 60A breaker to your breaker box, running the wire to your garage, and hard-wiring it to the Tesla (or somebody else's) Wall Connector, you'll get the max power you can stuff into a Tesla: 240 VAC * 48A = 11,520W, which works out to be about 48 miles of charge per hour.
And there you are.
MikeChicago
Member
No problem. Modern EVs, including all currently sold Teslas, have a heat pump to warm up the battery. It helps with range and performance. Especially if you pre-condition before heading out. We only have electric cars on our household and it isn’t a problem at all
MikeChicago
Member
The only way to go, in my opinion. I know a great electrician with good rates. I live in Southwest Suburbs.
Yes I noticed that too these past few days. Went to whole foods twice. They have super chargers. But it was charging slowly because today was about 32 degrees according to weather dot com. It said charging slowly or something like that. But when I use the right button on the streering wheel and say navigate super charger it preconditions. My brother in law told me. But their 2018 model 3 does not have a heat pump. So it wont work here. Or do all teslas precondition? It was only giving about 51 to 61 kwh at the super charger.
And the wall charger gives how many miles per hour? Is it slower than outside super charging? But faster than 120v?
There's a whole little list of What To Do In Cold Weather that Tesla puts out.
One of the items in that list states that if you're going to charge your car at a Supercharger, which apparently there's some at your local Whole Foods, Tell The NAV you're Going There Before You Leave. It'll preheat the batteries so the car's got a fighting chance to get to full speed charge.
On the other hand: If you haven't figured this out yet: The charge rate (that is, how many kW the car can take) goes down as battery charges up.
If for some vaguely insane reason one is charging to 100%, the car spends about as much time getting to 80% from 0% charge as it spends getting to 100% from 80% charge. So, if you show up at Whole Foods with, say, 60% charge, you're definitely not going to see the full 150kW or 250 kW that the Whole Foods Supercharger can deliver. The charge rate starts going down at about 30% or 40% State of Charge; there's plots hanging around.
Another example: Say you got your Wall Connector up and running, and you've got it wired into a 60A circuit so you can get a 48A charging rate. If you charge to 90%, you'll get 48A all the way up to 90%; past 90%, that bit about slowing down the rate kicks in; when you're at 99% (or something) the rate will slow down to an amp or three.
MikeChicago
Member
If you're out and about and need to charge, always search for and navigate to a supercharger because your car will precondition the battery. All that means is that it will heat it up, if necessary, to reach an ideal temperature to accept fast charge.
I have the wall charger at home and it's fantastic. Charge time depends on the model. Our Y is plugged in right now and it is showing 11kW per hour at 48A / 230v. My wife came home with the battery at around 55% at 6:30pm and now, at 8:00pm, there is only about 15 min left to reach 80%. That should give you an idea. It's pretty quick and I never think twice about it. I'd say you'd pick up 25 miles per hour or close to it.
Since this is general contracting work, the usual rule of thumb is to get three estimates. This is one guy; got another (legit, licensed) two showing up in the near future?
This is a great, very informative post. Thank you very much for posting. I am surprised you don’t have more “likes” not that you should care.
Just thinking, 32 Amps continuous (using 40 amps socket) at 240 volts (such as dryer plug, etc.) is 7.68 kWh. Which is about 28 miles of range per hour of charge on my MYP I am currently averaging. Plenty
Yep, anything north of 20 miles of charge per hour (i.e., the car gets charged overnight when one is sleeping) is usually sufficient for the purpose.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Thing is, as you might expect, the question of how one charges ones car comes up a lot on a forum like this: There's hundreds of posts, if not threads, on the subject. Just like the possibility of hanging really focuses the mind wonderfully, getting an electric vehicle really focuses a lot of people on how to get said vehicle charged. I'm just one of (at least) dozens of posters who've put up responses to these kind of questions. There really ought to be an FAQ.. and probably is, buried around this forum, somewhere.
The fun usually arrives with any or all of the following:
- Just how much does this stuff cost, anyway? (Somewhere between $600 and $2k, with Extras if one's breaker box/feed doesn't have the spare capacity.)
- Around here, the current for a Tesla maxes out at 48A, which calls for a 60A circuit. The problem is that there's no actual 60A wire: There's wire that's rated for 55A and wire that's rated for 65A, and people like to Cheap Out, since, at these rather heavy gauge wires, a bigger gauge gets expensive in a hurry. So the safety-conscious of us are always arguing with homeowners seeking to cheap out (kind of expected), but also with homeowners who have, shall we say, been taken by professionals (not expected) and fly-by-nighters (you get what you pay for.. including burnt down houses.)
- The eternal argument of a Tesla Mobile Connector installation vs. a hard-wired, Tesla Wall Connector (or equivalent from somebody else). One might think that ~$475 for that Wall Connector would be a lot more expensive than the alternative with a NEMA socket and the TMC. Turns out that for those that have run the math, it's more like a dead heat: For a new installation, common NEC code calls for a GFCI breaker (expensive) and common sense calls for a non-cheapie NEMA14-50 or equivalent that can handle thousands of insertions and removals (also expensive). (Most NEMA connectors for the 240V trade sold at Home Depots and the like can handle the current - but are only designed for, say, a couple dozen insertions and removals. That "couple dozen" might be fine for, say, an electric oven or clothes drier that gets plugged in once in a usage lifetime, but not such a good idea when one might want to throw the TMC into the trunk of a car a bunch of times a year for, say, emergency use on trips.)
- I'm an electronics-style EE who, for the times I play with power, fool with 48V telecom voltages and currents up to 50A or so. The real experts around here weigh in on stuff like sub-panels in detached garages, where issues like Grounding and Where Did That Neutral Wire Go, Anyway? become important. It gets.. interesting when the grounding to a garage gets messed up, which is Why Electricians. Which I'm not one. We get some pretty good debates on that from time to time.
- If you think that single family detached homes have issues, you haven't seen the fun that arrives when condo owners show up here looking for advice. It's nice when the (effective landowner or condo association) is forward looking and wants to install electrical for the masses of renters/condo mortgagees who're going to show with BEVs. It's a lot less fun when the property managers are full of old geezers who want things like they were back in the '60s.
- And if all that isn't enough to keep the interwebs humming, there's the maniacs with Solar Power. (I'm one of them.) With or without battery backup, it's definitely cool running around the landscape with an (effectively) solar-powered car. And cheap.
I don’t think its 0.06872c, but $0.06872.
Another problem is you’re ignoring taxes and other fees. I also have ComEd and with averaged taxes/fees per kWh, I pay about 16 cents per kWh.
How much it costs you depends on how much you actually charge, since you won’t be using the full 74 kWh battery most of the time.
So, do the math: kWh used x cost per kWh.
I used about 25% each day, which is about 20 kWh since I have the MYP (79-82-ish kWh battery). So, 20 x 0.16 = $3.20 each day.
For comparison, my prior two cars (2019 Honda HR-V and 2010 Honda Fit) would cost me $30 every three days or so to fill up, so $10 a day.
Wowzers. You pay $0.06872/kW-hr? That's extraordinarily low. Must be next to a hydroelectric plant or something.
Be careful with that "c" you're using for a cents sign. It's confusing.
OK, OK: I'm going to be pedantic. The short answer: Watts, and KWatts, are a rate, like gallons per minute. kW-hr is a unit for energy, which is like an amount, like, say, five gallons of water in a bucket.
The battery in your car stores a certain amount of energy. The typical units are in kW-hr. You happen to have a 74 kW-hr battery. (Or bucket, if you will).
Keep that in your brain. Here comes the SI Units.
The SI unit for energy is the Joule, abbreviated, "J". One Watt is a rate of usage of energy of One Joule per Second. That 100W light bulb over your desk? It's using 100 Joules of energy each and every second, direct from Ye Power Company.
Going to the basics, the Power Company will buy a lump of coal, which goes to pay the salaries and equipment to dig up more lumps of coal. If one burns 1 kG of that coal, the amount of energy released (as heat) will be (looking this up) 30 MJ. Given 95% efficient steam turbines/generators, that puts 28.5 MJ of energy onto the grid. The power company then sells the energy to users, using electric meters that can measure the energy as it passes from the grid into ones house.
For roughly the same reason one buys milk in gallons, rather than in ounces, the electric company measures the energy in kW-hr, which is defined as, "The amount of energy delivered to a 1 kW load in an hour's time." Doing the math,
1 kW-hr = 1000W/kW * 60 min/hr * 60 sec/min * 1 Joule/sec = 3.6 MJ. Same thing, but people have always liked being billed for, what 250 kW-hr on the electric bill rather than 900 MJ. Go figure.
Since the electric company plays with kW-hr, the people who do batteries for cars do the same.
Going back to your original question: 74 kW-hr * $0.06872/kW-hr = $5.085 to completely fill your battery. It ain't zero.
But here's the fun part: You have a Model 3 P, I'm going to assume that's a 2023 variant. At the EPA's web site, they say that that car gets 300 W-hr/mile. So, the cost per mile of that car is
.300 kW-hr/mile * $0.06972/kW-hr = $0.0209/mile. Two cents per mile.
Say one had the equivalent BMW 3-series, which gets around 27 miles/gal, and gas is around $3.00/gallon these days.
$3.00/gallon * 1 gallon/27 miles = $0.111/mile. That's blinking 5.3 times more than your Tesla
.For what it's worth, Superchargers charge about 3X the local rate for electrical energy. Which means that you'd still beat out that BMW, but maybe not a Prius. On trips only. And you're still not paying for oil changes.
