Car Wash Mode PLEASE!

[Snow Drift]

How is rolling forward, with the brakes off and the motor in neutral any different from normal regen at high speed?

I think those CYA warnings are from the lawyers.

Neutral does not spin the motor at all.

When driving the motor is causing the turning of the drive-unit/differential/axles. When the car is stopped in Neutral and acted upon, the process works in reverse. Now the wheels are turning the axles, which are moving the differential gears and drive gears which move the motor. The differential and DU gears are not designed to force the motor to spin. The teeth are too weak and could break in the process.

Rolling onto a flat-bed truck, or slowly through a car wash is acceptable. Towing at high speeds will cause damage to the drive-train and could overheat the system since the car is off and the DU pump is not applying fluid to cool.

If you exit the car to tow, or roll it through the car wash, it automatically goes into Park, applies the parking brake and then turns off. This means you are forcing the rear wheels to turn, the car is off, ABS/VDC are not working properly, the fluid pump is off, and the motor is being moved by the gears, not the normal power system.

Also, I don't know exactly why, but when you press Transport Mode the car makes a LOUD noise as if something is being forcibly released. That same noise does NOT happen when you simply shift from Park (parking brake is already applied) to Drive. Try it. Something major is happening.

 

[spesler]

Neutral does not spin the motor at all..

Is this correct? In an ICE car with a transmission, N disengages the transmission ("out of gear"), decoupling the engine from the wheels. AFAIK our cars are direct drive with a fixed gear ratio. When the wheels spin, the motors spin.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Neutral does not spin the motor at all.

When driving the motor is causing the turning of the drive-unit/differential/axles. When the car is stopped in Neutral and acted upon, the process works in reverse. Now the wheels are turning the axles, which are moving the differential gears and drive gears which move the motor. The differential and DU gears are not designed to force the motor to spin. The teeth are too weak and could break in the process.

Rolling onto a flat-bed truck, or slowly through a car wash is acceptable. Towing at high speeds will cause damage to the drive-train and could overheat the system since the car is off and the DU pump is not applying fluid to cool.

If you exit the car to tow, or roll it through the car wash, it automatically goes into Park, applies the parking brake and then turns off. This means you are forcing the rear wheels to turn, the car is off, ABS/VDC are not working properly, the fluid pump is off, and the motor is being moved by the gears, not the normal power system.

Also, I don't know exactly why, but when you press Transport Mode the car makes a LOUD noise as if something is being forcibly released. That same noise does NOT happen when you simply shift from Park (parking brake is already applied) to Drive. Try it. Something major is happening.

Blah blah blah... once again I’ll ask you how is any of that any different than using regen at high speed?

Answer: it’s not.

 

[HankLloydRight]

The differential and DU gears are not designed to force the motor to spin. The teeth are too weak and could break in the process.

Now you’re just making crap up. The diff, reduction gear and motors are all designed to operate in reverse, at high speed when using regen.

If the teeth are too weak to go in reverse, they are equally as weak to go forward. You really have no understanding how gears and motors work, so please stop posting.

 

[Snow Drift]

Now you’re just making crap up. The diff, reduction gear and motors are all designed to operate in reverse, at high speed when using regen.

If the teeth are too weak to go in reverse, they are equally as weak to go forward. You really have no understanding how gears and motors work, so please stop posting.

You continue to focus on when the car is being powered by the inverter/motor. The discussion is when the car is in Neutral, and being pushed by something else. Even ICE cannot be towed on their drive wheels and need to be lifted. Having the tires/wheels push the gears is a problem.

Here's a towing company's opinion:
Can My All-Wheel Drive Car be Towed? | O'Hare Towing Service

"When it comes to towing vehicles, they should not be towed by their drive wheels.

• Front wheel vehicles, they are towed with their rear wheels on the ground when the drive shaft is removed.
• Rear drive wheel vehicles are towed with their front wheels on the ground and the starring is locked for safety purposes.
• All-wheel-drive vehicle, there are no particular wheels that should be left on the ground. Towing a vehicle that has been fixed with a permanent all-wheel-drive system on two wheels is dangerous. This won’t just damage the transmission system, but also the drive components that might be a million dollar problem to deal with."

Also, even Tesla agrees that you need to use Tow Mode:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/operating_models_na.pdf

 

[rhumbliner]

Also, even Tesla agrees that you need to use Tow Mode:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/operating_models_na.pdf

I read that as Tesla saying to keep the car in Neutral (so you can exit the vehicle) you must use Tow Mode. Reading the manual makes it clear that Tow Mode is nothing more than Neutral.

 

[Snow Drift]

I read that as Tesla saying to keep the car in Neutral (so you can exit the vehicle) you must use Tow Mode. Reading the manual makes it clear that Tow Mode is nothing more than Neutral.

...Transport Mode (Tow Mode) is the only way to stay in Neutral while exiting the car. That's the whole point of the conversation. You need to exit the car for many car wash places.

OM / Driving / Starting and Powering Off (Page 39)

 

[HankLloydRight]

. Even ICE cannot be towed on their drive wheels and need to be lifted. Having the tires/wheels push the gears is a problem.

You keep referring to ICE vehicles.. which has absolutely no bearing on a Tesla motor so please stop posting about it. It only weakens your argument instead of helping it. Nothing I’ve said or posted relates to ICE, so I wish you would stop referring to it like it matters.

There is no clutch or gear shifting/switching in the simple differential in a Tesla. Therefore the only difference between Neutral and Tow mode is the latter doesn’t switch into park when you exit the car. All the diff gears and motor still spin the same ways as when under power or regen or neutral.

But please explain how the gears are too weak in one mode but not in the other.

Having the tires/wheels push the gears is a problem.

How many times do I need to say it? Regen is “having the tires/wheels push the gears” yet there’s never any damage to the motor or the gears.

The ONLY time you need to activate Tow mode is if you’re leaving the vehicle.

 

[Snow Drift]

The ONLY time you need to activate Tow mode is if you’re leaving the vehicle.

That's the whole point of this conversation. When you EXIT the driver's seat at a car wash you need to use Tow Mode.

 

[HankLloydRight]

That's the whole point of this conversation

No, it's not.

Nobody is arguing that tow mode disables the driver seat sensor.

It's about you claiming all kinds of damage would occur if you don't use Tow mode.
It's about you claiming the gear teeth are too weak to operate in regen mode (wheels pushing the motor).
It's about you claiming that even in Neutral (but not in tow mode), pushing the car forward will damage the gears and motor(s).

You're admitaly claiming that using tow mode is REQUIRED in a car wash, even if you don't get out of the car. Many people have demonstrated that no, you can be in drive or neutral and no damage occurs.

You're arguing that damage will occur to the motors if a car is in Park in a car wash, and the roller tries to push the car forward.

None of those things are true.

Do I need to go back and quote all the nonsensical statements you've made?

 

[iwannam3]

You continue to focus on when the car is being powered by the inverter/motor. The discussion is when the car is in Neutral, and being pushed by something else. Even ICE cannot be towed on their drive wheels and need to be lifted. Having the tires/wheels push the gears is a problem.

View attachment 348390

Have you seen hundreds of cars being flat towed behind an RV? If there is a hydraulic pump driven off the output shaft of the transmission or the output gears fling oil to lubricate the transmission you can tow it flat. The reason lots of cars can't be towed flat is the output shaft spinning does not provide lubrication to the transmission.

What Cars Can Be Flat Towed Behind an RV? | Edmunds

 

[Snow Drift]

No, it's not.

Nobody is arguing that tow mode disables the driver seat sensor.

It's about you claiming all kinds of damage would occur if you don't use Tow mode.
It's about you claiming the gear teeth are too weak to operate in regen mode (wheels pushing the motor).
It's about you claiming that even in Neutral (but not in tow mode), pushing the car forward will damage the gears and motor(s).

You're admitaly claiming that using tow mode is REQUIRED in a car wash, even if you don't get out of the car. Many people have demonstrated that no, you can be in drive or neutral and no damage occurs.

You're arguing that damage will occur to the motors if a car is in Park in a car wash, and the roller tries to push the car forward.

None of those things are true.

Do I need to go back and quote all the nonsensical statements you've made?

Tesla says to not do it. Therefore you shouldn’t. You just don’t want to accept that differentials get damaged by tow trucks.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Tesla says to not do it. Therefore you shouldn’t. You just don’t want to accept that differentials get damaged by tow trucks.

Yes, as I keep having to remind you, in ICE CARS. Not in Teslas.

Tesla use a simple open differential without clutches, locks, or friction plates like in most ICE cars with a limited slip differential.

Bjorn towed a Model S with a Model X for 6 miles and regenerated 7kWh of energy. No damage occurred.

Here's another example from Russia:

And many many people have taken their Teslas up Mt. Washington in NH and used regen all the way down. None of those cars were damaged. How is that any different than towing?

 

[Snow Drift]

How is that any different than towing?

The only thing I can think of that is different between Regen and Towing is that the car in ON and all systems, pumps, fluids, ABS, VDC, etc are working in conjunction to keep the car safe. When towing, the car is presumably off (how do you keep it on when you walk away?) So you need to use Transport Mode to keep the car on, no parking brake and free rolling.

I think you are right that for a short distance, in Neutral, with someone in the car, you could safely roll the car through a car wash. But, I do recognize that Tesla says differently, so I will use Transport Mode...maybe it's the lawyers or to prevent any chance of a warranty claim. But, I think for longer periods, especially Towing, it could overheat the motor as Tesla stated.

PS. I've driven Mt. Washington many times (I have family in NH). I can only imagine the regen potential going down.

 

[kevinmcf]

I am a professional car wash operator, I went to this site to try and figure out how to take care of my Tesla customers. A little about me I am 60+ years car enthusiast, back in the 60's, on any given day at my parents house (as a teenager) I had my 67 convertible Vette stingray, my brother a led sled (63 2 tone big block Chevy Impalla SS), A friends 67 Tri-Power Goat. and the friend who always had to park in street (not aloud in driveway as it wasn't a GM) was the 69 383 Hemi Super Bee, my best friend (neighbor) a 69 RS/ SS Camaro with the 302. We worked to make money to put in our cars. I would bet you anything none of these cars ever seen a Car Wash! We very seldom washed our cars (only when necessary) as we usually just dusted them down every night. I have taken some offense to the negative narration of car washes, "all they do is scratch and leave swirl-marks on cars". Any operator "worth his salt" would not cause any damage to any vehicle period! With all the review sites out their Yelp, Google, Facebook ... would not take much time to determine a good wash operator from a car wash that does have a history of damaging vehicles. I am also applaud that a company like Tesla would even mass produce a car that is not Car Wash friendly. These are different times, everyone back then who had a car like these, spent their Sundays cleaning and tinkering hanging out BS'ing. you cant believe my customers today with Porshes, Teslas... $70-$80,000 cars just get a cheap exterior wash, I'll ask wheels undercarriage ... naaa just get the crap off!!, and the local Spanish kid with a beat up Toyota gets a Gold or Platinum wash. Just a reminder that not "ALL" Car Washes are bad! And little reminiscing, Check out my reviews Bridgewatercarwash. last week with snow, ice & salt I did get 1 negative review as we were lined up to street for 4 days straight, and it is also really getting harder to get good help (everyone wants a job, but nobody wants to work) but we do strive to be the best we can be, we had 2 repair shops back in the early 70's - mid 90's, been doing this washing/ detailing cars, for a long time, built wash in 93.

 

[rogerbohl]

Reading this forum, I just discovered how to keep the wipers from turning on in a (brushless, of course) car wash. Thanks for the help. Should I have figured this out myself? Why not an "off" icon to the left of the "i ii iii iiii Auto" sequence?

 

[rlb4]

Reading this forum, I just discovered how to keep the wipers from turning on in a (brushless, of course) car wash. Thanks for the help. Should I have figured this out myself? Why not an "off" icon to the left of the "i ii iii iiii Auto" sequence?

There is an "off" option.

 

[scottysize]

Reading this forum, I just discovered how to keep the wipers from turning on in a (brushless, of course) car wash. Thanks for the help. Should I have figured this out myself? Why not an "off" icon to the left of the "i ii iii iiii Auto" sequence?

Ya. Every time I go, I still have to remember to tap the wiper to turn off. I will say it seems to be easier to get into neutral now. My wife still won't take it to a car wash.

 

[MP3Mike]

There are "hidden features" hidden in the V10 video from Tesla:

One of them is "Car Wash Mode"...

 

[rlb4]

There are "hidden features" hidden in the V10 video from Tesla:

One of them is "Car Wash Mode"...

Where do you see that?