Canadian Superchargers

[mknox]

Sorry, but I disagree. CSA only accepts C-UL, not UL. C-UL means inspected by UL staffers, but holding the product to a CSA standard. There are several wiring methods that UL accepts that CSA doesn't.

Could be. My experience is more on the utility side where there seems to be more latitude on that side of the demarcation point. At one point, there were no requirements at all for most utility distribution equipment to be certified at all. Now every nut bolt and bracket has to conform to some appropriate and applicable standard as do "assemblies" of these parts. I thought I had heard of UL listed products simply being accepted and "given" a C-UL label, but as you say, maybe that's only for products were the manufacturing standards are the same.

 

[Doug_G]

Sorry, but I disagree. CSA only accepts C-UL, not UL. C-UL means inspected by UL staffers, but holding the product to a CSA standard. There are several wiring methods that UL accepts that CSA doesn't.

This is correct.

 

[Vger]

The issue might be that Tesla, as an electrical utility equipment manufacturer, is previously unknown to CSA, with no track record. It is possible that ABB, Eaton, etc. got speedier approval for their CHAdeMO units for Canada because they were established companies with many prior approvals for Canada.

This could also explain why Tesla was initially confident in rapid deployment in places like Squamish, even tentatively planning the launch event (for April!). Because of the process established in the US, the supercharger team might have been totally focused on the site negotiations and permitting, and then only when the contractors were lined up and refused to touch the equipment without CSA approval, did they realize they were hitting a brick wall! A Federal level road-block would explain why NO progress has been made anywhere, in any province.

 

[mknox]

The issue might be that Tesla, as an electrical utility equipment manufacturer, is previously unknown to CSA, with no track record. It is possible that ABB, Eaton, etc. got speedier approval for their CHAdeMO units for Canada because they were established companies with many prior approvals for Canada.

Likely, but what I don't understand is why Tesla is remaining so silent on the matter. Simply saying they're having "permitting" problems could mean any number of things. Surely someone on their Supercharger Team knows the real reason. Tesla seems to suggest they're acutely aware of the angst it's causing Canadians and are doing everything they can. So if it's not something wrong on Tesla's end, why don't they just tell us what's going on? If it is some crazy CSA holdup, tell us. We as a user community might even be able to help by applying pressure to the actual problem.

 

[Forty Creek]

Likely, but what I don't understand is why Tesla is remaining so silent on the matter. Simply saying they're having "permitting" problems could mean any number of things. Surely someone on their Supercharger Team knows the real reason. Tesla seems to suggest they're acutely aware of the angst it's causing Canadians and are doing everything they can. So if it's not something wrong on Tesla's end, why don't they just tell us what's going on? If it is some crazy CSA holdup, tell us. We as a user community might even be able to help by applying pressure to the actual problem.

Remaining silent might also be the sign of a class act, especially in the face of all of this customer frustration. It might not be productive in the long run for Tesla to start publicly blaming regulators for the delays. Wouldn't make for a good working relationship, longer term.
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite annoyed by the delays too.

 

[Doug_G]

My guess: they had to make hardware modifications to get CSA approval. That would certainly explain a long delay. Either that or they didn't get around to starting approvals until very late... which wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[SlyWombat]

Likely, but what I don't understand is why Tesla is remaining so silent on the matter. Simply saying they're having "permitting" problems could mean any number of things. Surely someone on their Supercharger Team knows the real reason. Tesla seems to suggest they're acutely aware of the angst it's causing Canadians and are doing everything they can. So if it's not something wrong on Tesla's end, why don't they just tell us what's going on? If it is some crazy CSA holdup, tell us. We as a user community might even be able to help by applying pressure to the actual problem.

Communication is key to any success. It does not have to be negative or directed to any agency, just the facts please. Especially if your track record of making promises is in question.

 

[rapoport3a]

Is some sort of federal-level approval needed? Or does the CSA operate province-by-province, like the Criminal Code?

 

[KenN]

CSA certification is canada-wide. However, CSA only certifies products. Installation methods are not the CSA's domain but rather the Canadian Electrical Code (CEC), local/municipal electrical codes and the power utility's standards apply when making connections to those products.

FYI, CSA is actually a non-profit organization. They are governed by the Standards Council of Canada (a crown corporation). If the product (the supercharger assembly) isn't CSA or C-UL certified through a product certification program, an assembly can get field, or "special" inspection. Instead of the normal CSA label, a special inspection label is applied, with a file number (LR#####).

So ... the CSA mark (or C-UL) must appear on all assembled products and subassemblies, external wiring/cabling size, type and connection methods must be to CEC (or local code if applicable) and utility power supply and how it's connected is dictated by the utility.

 

[hingisfan]

I'm 15 min from Kingston and there several times a week so I will be checking frequently on the Outdoor Mall expansion progress and any signs of the SC. (Just to save anyone their time if they are going out of their way to check.)

 

[Duckjybe]

My guess: they had to make hardware modifications to get CSA approval. That would certainly explain a long delay.

I would bet this is the reason.

 

[mknox]

Communication is key to any success. It does not have to be negative or directed to any agency, just the facts please. Especially if your track record of making promises is in question.

Exactly.

And I should apologize for my testiness on this issue. I'm leaving on a road trip to the Chicago area this week, and it's going to cost me more than if I took an ICE car. Why? Because I have to make an overnight hotel stop in both directions since I can't make it to/from the first Supercharger and my home in the GTA. It's about a 10 hour drive to where I'm going in an ICE.

 

[Roddy]

I did not see that this was reported as yet, but the building permit for the Squamish SC has finally been issued,

 

[iKhalid]

I did not see that this was reported as yet, but the building permit for the Squamish SC has finally been issued,

That's great!

 

[Morristhecat]

Awesome! Where did you hear this @Roddy? I have been checking Squamish's Permit website daily and it still isn't updated.

I did not see that this was reported as yet, but the building permit for the Squamish SC has finally been issued,

 

[Roddy]

Awesome! Where did you hear this @Roddy? I have been checking Squamish's Permit website daily and it still isn't updated.

Hi Morristhecat,

It was listed today under issued building permits. It shows date received as May 14th and date issued as May 27th. The building permit is issued under the name: Black and Veatch TESLA Motor Company at 105 - 40147 Glen Alder for $225,000.

http://squamish.ca/assets/Building-Stats-2014/BP-Graph-June-5-2014.pdf

 

[mibaro2]

I did not see that this was reported as yet, but the building permit for the Squamish SC has finally been issued,

That would be great! Maybe it will start the dominoe effect and Canada will finally get Super Chargers.

 

[Morristhecat]

Thanks for the message Roddy. I guess you need to get more posts up to report quickly. Here is @Roddy's info

http://squamish.ca/assets/Building-Stats-2014/BP-Graph-June-5-2014.pdf

Looks like it was issued May 27th!

It was applied for by Black and Veatch. Check out the 2nd button on their home page graphic:
Black Veatch - Global EPC Leaders in Critical Human Infrastructure


Or here:
Tesla Supercharger – Electric Vehicle Charging System

 

[KenN]

Oh ffs ... now I know the problem. Black and Veatch has one office in western Canada, located in Metrotown. The entire engineering staff of this office is one VP and two process engineers. They have no in-house electrical engineering expertise, so they've almost certainly been sourcing their US offices for electrical engineering capacity. They'll be like fish out of water when dealing with Canadian standards and utility requirements.

 

[Doug_G]

Roddy, your message was auto-moderated; the system sets the threshold for spam scores very low for your first few posts. I released the first one and deleted the duplicate.