I'm having a hard time understanding why someone would pay $55k-$70k for this, and it only gets 35 miles on it's electric 16kWh battery and still have to pay for gas, when you can get a Tesla Model S 40kWh at a cheaper price for 160 miles. And that is assuming that its priced at the cheaper end. BTW, that 35 miles is LESS than the Volt. GM said that since the Cadillac is heavier and it will get less electric miles than the volt. Hmmm what are you getting for all this extra money? Nothing but the Caddy name. The 'slam dunk' here is that it's no doubt going to bomb big time, even moreso than the Volt. Worth it? I can't find any good reason. Enlighten me.
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Cadillac ELR (Converj)
- Thread starter Takumi
- Start date
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone would pay $55k-$70k for this, and it only gets 35 miles on it's electric 16kWh battery and still have to pay for gas, when you can get a Tesla Model S 40kWh at a cheaper price for 160 miles. And that is assuming that its priced at the cheaper end. BTW, that 35 miles is LESS than the Volt. GM said that since the Cadillac is heavier and it will get less electric miles than the volt. Hmmm what are you getting for all this extra money? Nothing but the Caddy name. The 'slam dunk' here is that it's no doubt going to bomb big time, even moreso than the Volt. Worth it? I can't find any good reason. Enlighten me.
Well there were lots of articles claiming $55k and then one comes out saying $70k. Sounds like someone stirring it to me.
This car is a daily driver for the well-to-do. You can see that by the fact the trunk is sized for a set of golf clubs. 35 miles is more than enough for that type of use - as you can see from the graph I have posted ad nauseam. There will be a large potential market there that still want the ICE backup and I expect Jay Leno will be trading in the Volt.
Besides, the 40kWh Model S 160 miles is not the EPA rating and it doesn't have rapid charging, which limits the use of that class of large car.
EDIT: Trawling through the threads on GM-Volt.com, they seem to be split down the middle on whether people will get this or go to the Model S. I guess a lot will depend on what the final price actually is.
This car is a daily driver for the well-to-do. You can see that by the fact the trunk is sized for a set of golf clubs. 35 miles is more than enough for that type of use - as you can see from the graph I have posted ad nauseam. There will be a large potential market there that still want the ICE backup and I expect Jay Leno will be trading in the Volt.
Besides, the 40kWh Model S 160 miles is not the EPA rating and it doesn't have rapid charging, which limits the use of that class of large car.
EDIT: Trawling through the threads on GM-Volt.com, they seem to be split down the middle on whether people will get this or go to the Model S. I guess a lot will depend on what the final price actually is.
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I keep saying over and over in my head "why would anyone buy THAT when you could buy the Tesla instead". That's my problem with the ELR. Especially if it really is upwards $70k. I would say its a nice car for a $40k price range IMHO (while the Volt should be $26-30k). At $70k for the ELR, now your competing against the 85kWh model of the Tesla. If you're in a state like mine (NJ), you'd pay $0 sales tax on the Tesla, $4900 sales tax on the Cadillac + luxury tax. That would actually put the ELR more expensive than the 85kWh Model S. Now which one do you think is the better deal? No comparison. The 85kWh Model S makes the ELR look like a bad joke. Would you rather have a brand new nokia flip-phone or an iPhone? yeah thats what I thought.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
Apparently, nearly 2000 individuals disagreed and bought a Karma at over $100,000
It's a nice deal for those that can't get beyond range anxiety and the need for visiting gas stations.
It's a nice deal for those that can't get beyond range anxiety and the need for visiting gas stations.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I don't like the look of the front.
Sounds like performance won't be all that great, given the weight of the car.
Sounds like performance won't be all that great, given the weight of the car.
tdelta1000
Active Member
I can think of plenty of reasonable answers to that question. They aren't necessarily the answers you or I would have, but different strokes for different folks. I hope the ELR is a success.
I was expecting a new powertrain with more range, faster charging, faster acceleration compared to the Volt. Also, I was not expecting almost 300 lb mass increase and less efficient 20" tires. Naïve, I know.
Still a nice looking car, with some nice features. But more range and faster charging is what what I would have been willing to pay for. The Model S is looking better. The S will keep getting better yet as the SuperCharger and J1772-DC charging networks get built out.
GSP
Still a nice looking car, with some nice features. But more range and faster charging is what what I would have been willing to pay for. The Model S is looking better. The S will keep getting better yet as the SuperCharger and J1772-DC charging networks get built out.
GSP
evrider
New Member
Hi folks,
I'm new to the Tesla forum here. I currently own a 2011 Chevrolet Volt, actually the 38th Volt ever produced. Its lease is up in December of 2013, and I'll be shopping for its replacement. The Tesla Model X is one of the possibilities, as is another Volt, and I've also been watching the ELR and wondering if a plug-in version of the Lincoln MKZ will appear (kind of a dark horse, but I like that new car.)
But I'm here to comment on the ELR as introduced today. Basically I'm disappointed that they didn't do more in the way of powertrain improvements and battery capacity over the Volt. The styling is sexy, and the interior is very luxurious looking. More lux and better finish I'd say than the Tesla, unless you're fixated on having a giant, rectangular, somewhat awkwardly integrated monitor dominate your dashboard (yes I know, it has its advantages). I suspect well-equipped ELR models will be around 70K, which is just too much I think for it to have any kind of sales success for what it is. Probably why GM is already saying it will be made in limited quantities, so they make poor sales look supply restricted.
Obviously I'm not leaning in the ELR direction at this point, but there are still some points people made here about it I'd quibble with. One is that the ELR is a re-bodied Volt. I don't think that holds water. Yes the powertrain is Voltec (but with some differences that allow it to flow more power and also power more accessories.) But it has a very different suspension (including active damping), steering system, even a different wheelbase. I'd say it's a distinctly different car than the Volt. We'll see what the press eventually says about how it drives.
I also think the ability to drive anywhere you want without concern about charging is an advantage, which I currently enjoy in my Volt along with the ability to do local driving all electric. Don't get me wrong, I think the Tesla S is pretty awesome and I'm a big fan of the supercharging network concept, which I think is an ingenious move on Tesla's part. But it's going to be a while before it's really in place, and it still has you travelling fairly specific routes (or at least making specific detours.) Like if I had a Tesla S right now, I could drive from my house to DC, and some New England points, but that trip out to Falling Water in Pennsylvania or down to Cape Hatteras is still a no-go, not to mention hundreds of other destinations currently. That has to be a consideration when I pick my next car. I also have real concerns about the effects of cold weather on range, as that significantly affects the Volt.
Anyway, I'll be looking in on this forum from time to time as lease termination approaches. Best to all!
I'm new to the Tesla forum here. I currently own a 2011 Chevrolet Volt, actually the 38th Volt ever produced. Its lease is up in December of 2013, and I'll be shopping for its replacement. The Tesla Model X is one of the possibilities, as is another Volt, and I've also been watching the ELR and wondering if a plug-in version of the Lincoln MKZ will appear (kind of a dark horse, but I like that new car.)
But I'm here to comment on the ELR as introduced today. Basically I'm disappointed that they didn't do more in the way of powertrain improvements and battery capacity over the Volt. The styling is sexy, and the interior is very luxurious looking. More lux and better finish I'd say than the Tesla, unless you're fixated on having a giant, rectangular, somewhat awkwardly integrated monitor dominate your dashboard (yes I know, it has its advantages). I suspect well-equipped ELR models will be around 70K, which is just too much I think for it to have any kind of sales success for what it is. Probably why GM is already saying it will be made in limited quantities, so they make poor sales look supply restricted.
Obviously I'm not leaning in the ELR direction at this point, but there are still some points people made here about it I'd quibble with. One is that the ELR is a re-bodied Volt. I don't think that holds water. Yes the powertrain is Voltec (but with some differences that allow it to flow more power and also power more accessories.) But it has a very different suspension (including active damping), steering system, even a different wheelbase. I'd say it's a distinctly different car than the Volt. We'll see what the press eventually says about how it drives.
I also think the ability to drive anywhere you want without concern about charging is an advantage, which I currently enjoy in my Volt along with the ability to do local driving all electric. Don't get me wrong, I think the Tesla S is pretty awesome and I'm a big fan of the supercharging network concept, which I think is an ingenious move on Tesla's part. But it's going to be a while before it's really in place, and it still has you travelling fairly specific routes (or at least making specific detours.) Like if I had a Tesla S right now, I could drive from my house to DC, and some New England points, but that trip out to Falling Water in Pennsylvania or down to Cape Hatteras is still a no-go, not to mention hundreds of other destinations currently. That has to be a consideration when I pick my next car. I also have real concerns about the effects of cold weather on range, as that significantly affects the Volt.
Anyway, I'll be looking in on this forum from time to time as lease termination approaches. Best to all!
I love that this has flipped.
It wasn't long ago that forum discussion included comments like "due to entering the $80+ bracket, now Tesla has to compete with the likes of high ticket luxury vehicles."
It's actually quite simple. First, the 40kwh MS will NOT be EPA rated at 160 miles. My guess is that it will get somewhere around 110-120 miles according to the EPA. And that will be in range mode, not standard. Many on this forum have said with the 85kwh MS, they get 210-215 miles of practical range. So it is likely that the 40kwh MS will have a realistic driving range of more like 90-100 miles. $60K for 100 miles with a 4 hour charging time? Some would say that the Model S isn't worth it at that price.
Secondly, the ELR is a true luxury car. The ELR unlike the S is a true luxury vehicle - its got parking sensors, cupholders (motorized!), heads up display, Bose 10-piece audio system, lane departure warning, etc etc. etc. The S never struck me as a 'luxury' car on the interior - it was cool/minimalist/spartan, but not luxury. People at price points north of $50K expect certain amenities and in this regard, the ELR has the S beat. Quite simple.
Thirdly, range anxiety! The voltec powertrain will continue to get good mileage in range extend mode, probably 35 mpg or so in reality. Plus the 35 miles of EPA rated range (incidentally, the Volt and the Karma are the two EVers I'm most familiar with and both have gotten MORE practical/real world range than their EPA figures suggest - I've gotten about 40-43 miles in the Volt, and about 41-43 in the Karma - surprised so many MS owners get LESS than the EPA ratings). The voltec powertrain is very quiet even with the range extender on - again, kudos to the engineering team at GM for the Volt platform.
Fourth - styling! The Model S is not an ugly car, but its just got no personality - its forgettable (at least for me) and can get lost easily in a sea of Mazdas, Jaguars and Toyotas/Lexus. The ELR, like the Karma, has distinct lines and styling. Like it or not, they are memorable and unique. The angular body lines, the headlights, the rims - all are uniquely Caddy.
On the performance side, no doubt the MS is faster - just as the MSP is faster than the Karma. The Volt does 0-60 in 9s or so I think, and I suspect the ELR will be around 7s or so, respectable but by no means fast.
Again, at $55K, this car is a bargain for the tech and luxury features it offers. It caters to the luxury car buyers who like the idea of going electric but want the freedom of range and the reliability of a proven luxury automaker behind it. The MS, in my opinion, caters to the early adopters and techies who like the tech and are willing to compromise with the issues associated with new tech - all the small things like no cupholders, parking sensors, interior storage, average sound system, pedestrian styling, the need to pre-plan your longer-range trips to accomodate charging stations, etc. For the MS to cross into the ELR or Karma territory, it needs more range and/or faster, easily accessible charging.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
It's a sharp design, really brings out the design direction that Cadillac is headed for with the ATS and XTS. I like the interior design too. A lot of luxurious touches. I disagree with Csaba Csere when he says that it will create a new market segment of green cars that have a sexy, driver oriented approach. I think the roadster did that over 5 years ago.
Adm
Active Member
If the 85kWh pack gets you 210mi range, the 40kWh pack has 112mi range. (210/300=0.7 0.7*160=112) (Is that 210mi with a range charge or standard charge?)
The 60kWh car is more efficient than the 85kWh, so if the 40kWh car is equally or even more efficient than the 60kWh car than that number maybe a little bit higher.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Me too.I think it's a beautiful car. There is definitely a market for this car. Not me, as Doug said. It's not a Tesla, and eventually it will burn gas. More often than not for most I suspect. Plus you have to go into a GM dealership to buy it. Yuk!! If it costs 70k or less, it's gonna hurt Tesla and crush the Karma.
I don't get the comparison with Model S. The ELR is a 2-seater, which is great as a "toy car", but it's not very practical (which the Model S is). You still need another car for giving people a ride, bringing home your shopping and so forth. They are just two very different beasts - which is good, because people are different and like different stuff.
My opinion: for a "toy car" at that price, since it will anyway use gasoline, I would have wanted more engine power. Or a convertible.
My opinion: for a "toy car" at that price, since it will anyway use gasoline, I would have wanted more engine power. Or a convertible.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Really? In my 85 I easily get that much practical range in standard mode, using the heat. I consistently exceed the EPA's rated range on my 40 mile drive to work, which consists of 15 miles of Interstate driving at 70 MPH and the rest a mix of rural/city driving between 40 and 60 MPH. I'm certain that in Range mode I could exceed 265 miles with a similar mix of realistic driving.
Not sure if it was posted, but Cadillac estimated a 0-60 time of 8 seconds for the ELR.
Personally I hope it does well, as it's a nice poster car for EVs and EREVs. Not sure if I really see it as directly competing against the Model S due to the huge differences in seating/door arrangements and interior/cargo space, but there's bound to be some overlap particularly at the lower end.
Personally I hope it does well, as it's a nice poster car for EVs and EREVs. Not sure if I really see it as directly competing against the Model S due to the huge differences in seating/door arrangements and interior/cargo space, but there's bound to be some overlap particularly at the lower end.
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