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By 2030, 100% of cars will be electric & 100% of power will be from solar. True or false?

By 2030, 100% of cars will be electric & 100% of power will be from solar. True or false?


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I wish all the doom-and-gloom was not true. Excess population -->food shortage -->water shortage --> society disruption . So electric cars are way down the list. Still, every one of us who intends to buy an electric car help in some small measure.

I don't see politicians talking about population control (perhaps refugee control, but not population). Limited resources are observed and mentioned…but few serious plans are put forward (not on my watch). I guess I'll just fiddle while Rome burns.

Population control is a very touchy subject to most people. Not just because of some people's beliefs, but anything beyond voluntary birth control steps on a slippery slope to some of the worst madness this planet has ever experienced. When the choice is do what little you can and hope for the best or something barbarous like genocide or eugenics, I definitely opt for the former. I suspect many politicians understand the over population problem too, but know it would be political suicide to even broach the subject. (I've been careful in my reply to emphasize that I am very definitely against any extreme measures for population control because this is such a touchy subject. The land mine in the living room so to speak.)

Sustainable energy is probably one of the biggest issues facing North America where population densities are low by world standards and there are a lot of natural resources. It's pretty high up the list in Europe too. But in much of the rest of the world there are bigger problems looming.
 
I posted the same talk upthread, but my concern is the population is stabilizing too late.

It's not as dire.

We:
Have the technology to create food for 10 billion people, when people accept biotech.
Have the technology for water for 10 billion people, when people accept nuclear.
Have the technology for clean energy for 10 billion people, when people accept solar.

It's more a matter of making the right decisions and forming the right policies. And that is far more of a concern than the actual population growth.
 
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I wish all the doom-and-gloom was not true. Excess population -->food shortage -->water shortage --> society disruption . So electric cars are way down the list. Still, every one of us who intends to buy an electric car help in some small measure.

I don't see politicians talking about population control (perhaps refugee control, but not population). Limited resources are observed and mentioned…but few serious plans are put forward (not on my watch). I guess I'll just fiddle while Rome burns.

There is no overpopulation. There are geo-political issues that cause food shortage and human strife. And that has always been the case.
 
Thanks for the link to your movie - it tells a good story. Just curious if you've reserved a model 3, and how many of your van companions have. I voted false for all the reasons others said, but am thrilled that Gen Xers and Millenials care about this and are better educated on the issues than my generation :)
 
I can't imagine buying another ICE vehicle as long as quality BEVs are made at a reasonable price. My wife drives a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee that would be close to the top end Model X. I would like to see something similar with a much smaller premium when I'm ready to replace her car. I know she will want another SUV, but not one that costs $140k. As for my kids, they are just entering the workforce, so a Model 3 is not out of the question, but still a bit pricy for a new college graduate.
 
I posted the same talk upthread, but my concern is the population is stabilizing too late.

That's a concern that I share. I like to point people to the Don't Panic show because for many people, the concern over population isn't that it's stabilizing too late - it's that it won't ever stabilize.

I find the progress on the first problem - dramatically reduced birth rates, and dramatic improvement in health care, across the world at all economic levels, all religions, all countries, to be an indication of just how fast and how much better we can improve ourselves as a species when we want to. I realize it's not some master plan, but the effect is the same.

From the latter point of view, the only way the world's population doesn't stabilize around 11B in early 2100 is we find a really large scale effect that reduces the population (like a world war that kills 10-30% of the global population, or something similar) OR health care improves even more, and at the scale of the entire globe, increasing life expectancy another 15 years and adding another 2B to the total before we stabilize.


The question I wonder about today, is what do our food and energy, production and consumption, patterns and systems need to start shifting to now, so that the planet can sustain and carry 11B of us. With increasing standards of living and life. More renewable energy is a good start. More of our lives running on electricity instead of burning hydrocarbons is a good start.

Our food production today is hugel dependent on hydrocarbons as an input, from the energy to run the tractors and transport the food, to fertilizers and other chemicals that use hydrocarbons as feedstock. What does the agricultural system look like and what technology advances do we need, to have a high quality and high output food production system, that will work for 1000 years?
 
well-to wax philosophic on a local basis....Tucson has well water that can supply a population of 35,000 persons on a sustainable basis. We have a population of about 1.5 million...and growing. If we just used well water,our inventory that took millions of years to accumulate would be gone in 8 years. So, we built a canal to pipe water from the Colorado river...and our allocation is 2.1 million gallons per day, about enough for 2.1 million souls. Our allocation is at risk - California wants it, and if you add California allocation to ours, the river cannot sustain that vol. Our politicians want growth to build houses and sell loans- not restrict growth to match water supply. Somehow, our use patterns must shift to make room for newcomers. Take my savings and sell it to the next guy.

I contend overpopulation is looming in my desert and I see no efforts to plan for it.
 
Keep in mind that:

a) India is currently the densest populated country that is self-sufficient in food and water (with current technology).
b) If you extrapolate the Indian population density to the habitable landmass of the world as a whole, you get to 9.5 billion people.

It's a change in lifestyle to many of us, but not an outrageous change - certainly not one that most people would go to war for. There are plenty of countries where 95% of us would be happy living in that has a similar or larger population density than India - e.g. UK, Belgium, Italy, South Korea, Switzerland.

Our biggest obstacle isn't our planet, but our unwillingness to solve our own problems. Saudi Arabia has virtually no land-based water, yet it has no problems obtaining water. Why do we have problems in California?
 
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No way 100% of the power will be from solar. Nope. Not happening. Why would the Norwegians get rid of their cheap hydro dams when they have such a horrible solar profile during half of the year? The cost would be enormous and there'd be no savings in CO2. By 2030 will we decide to disassemble existing wind and wave generating installations, and geothermal?
 
As you phrase the question the answer has to be no to both. There's no possible way under even the most wildly optimistic scenario.

Keep in mind there are currently about 2 billion vehicles in use and we make about 100 million a year. Currently only a fraction of 1% of the new production is electric.

I'm pretty wildly optimistic. I think by 2030 the fraction of electrics will be much larger than most analysts think because of the popularity of autonomous vehicles operated by Mobility networks. I think that shift may significantly reduce the number of vehicles and shift demand to electrics because the Mobility networks will care about the cost savings of electrics more than driver/owners would. If you put 100k miles a year on a vehicle and own/operate millions of vehicles it adds up. That might add up to 20% of vehicles by 2030 if the vehicle count falls a lot and they are crazy successful.
 
well-to wax philosophic on a local basis....Tucson has well water that can supply a population of 35,000 persons on a sustainable basis. We have a population of about 1.5 million...and growing. If we just used well water,our inventory that took millions of years to accumulate would be gone in 8 years. So, we built a canal to pipe water from the Colorado river...and our allocation is 2.1 million gallons per day, about enough for 2.1 million souls. Our allocation is at risk - California wants it, and if you add California allocation to ours, the river cannot sustain that vol. Our politicians want growth to build houses and sell loans- not restrict growth to match water supply. Somehow, our use patterns must shift to make room for newcomers. Take my savings and sell it to the next guy.

I contend overpopulation is looming in my desert and I see no efforts to plan for it.

Southern California and the Southwest in general has a low natural load carrying capability because of the water situation. My mother grew up in Los Angeles and my father moved there in 1940. They both remembered the water wars that started in the 30s to get enough water to LA to support its growth.

Some people in California have proposed tapping the Columbia River here in the NW to send to Southern California (about a 1000 mile journey) which fuels the anti-California sentiment here in the NW. Oregonians and Washingtonians are very protective of their natural resources, especially the water. The two states have drinking water standards that I believe are much stricter than most of the US. Seattle and Portland have large swaths of the Cascade mountains that are closed off to humans which are the watersheds for those city's water supplies.

Keep in mind that:

a) India is currently the densest populated country that is self-sufficient in food and water (with current technology).
b) If you extrapolate the Indian population density to the habitable landmass of the world as a whole, you get to 9.5 billion people.

It's a change in lifestyle to many of us, but not an outrageous change - certainly not one that most people would go to war for. There are plenty of countries where 95% of us would be happy living in that has a similar or larger population density than India - e.g. UK, Belgium, Italy, South Korea, Switzerland.

Our biggest obstacle isn't our planet, but our unwillingness to solve our own problems. Saudi Arabia has virtually no land-based water, yet it has no problems obtaining water. Why do we have problems in California?

Saudi Arabia does get a significant amount of water from desalinization, which is very energy intensive. California could build desal plants fuels by solar, but California's water needs are significantly higher than Saudi Arabia's. Saudi Arabia has a population over 30 million, which is significant, but they have few industries that require water like manufacturing and virtually no agriculture. California agriculture can be very inefficient in its water use, but there are a lot of efforts to make CA farming more water efficient.

California uses over 100 gallons of water per day per capita. Saudi Arabia uses about 70 gallons a day. (Closer than I thought when I looked it up.)

India is able to support itself for food now, but its running out of ground water. The problem we're facing worldwide is we're only able to support the 7 billion people we have now by using ground water which is being used up at a rate 1000 times faster than it is being replaced by nature. That's one reason I say the long term carrying capacity of the Earth can't support 7 billion people. We may be able to make some fresh water by deslinizing sea water, but that is very energy intensive and it's going to take a big growth in solar and/or other renewables to support and it still doesn't help places that are some distance from salt water like Tucson.

The growing region in India is way up in the north a long ways from the Indian Ocean. They would have to put in huge desal plants along a coastline that is already crowded, power it with new renewable installations, and then build mega pipelines to move that water up country. It can all be done, but it will be a massive engineering project and it's going to be very expensive.

This would have to be done in a lot of countries. If ocean levels do change, then the desal plants may be put underwater, or if the climate gets colder, which may also happen (the ice core records show that over the last 2 million years 90% of the time the Earth has been much colder than it is now and just before a glaciation period starts, world temperatures go up) the desal plants may be left high and dry. Though some places like Southern California and the SW US would see significantly more rain than they see now. The geologic record shows that the entire western part of North America gets staggering amounts of moisture during ice ages. The entire state of Utah was a giant lake (Lake Bonneville) during the last one. The North Pacific gets warmer during ice ages.

Human nature is to stick its head in the sand until a problem is severe then scramble to try and fix it. I saw a story on the documentary series Vice a few weeks ago that the Indian government isn't willing to do anything about the children living essentially on the tracks in the Calcutta train station. That's a much easier problem to solve than running out of ground water and building the infrastructure needed to replace it with desalinized water.
 
There are new nuclear plant designs that are much safer than old designs. There is even one the uses nuclear waste for fuel, but getting a new plant built is going to be very difficult. People are particularly concerned about nuclear plants near active faults, and there is nowhere in California that is far from a fault.

I was at Cal Poly when Diablo Canyon went online. It wan an epic NIMBY fight. The public attitude about nuclear in California wasn't helped by San Onofre having to be shut down years ahead of schedule due to damage done by shoddy maintenance.

I do believe we should be building some new nuclear plants that use up nuclear waste from other plants. It's not only more responsible for future generations, but it is a great way to generate a heck of a lot of electricity with something that would otherwise be a problem. However, with the politics in the west coast states, I wouldn't expect the public to accept even the safest type of nuclear plant in any of them.
 
desal water on the coast can be trucked/piped for drinking water supplies. farmers don't need this quality but do need massive volumes.

our problem is that we are spoiled with pressurized and heated and safe water. this has only been available for a hundred years, but we think in terms of being entitled. if we hauled a bucket from a well, our use would drop
 
You don't want to put salt water on farmer's fields though. In SE Asia some areas have destroyed farmland farming shrimp. The land now can't be used for anything else now.

In California there has been a lot of fighting over the water in the Sacramento River. Farmers want more of it to go to farming and many believe they are letting it flow all the way to the San Francisco Bay to save some wildlife, but the real reason they let as much of it flow as they do is to reduce salt water encroachment up the river.

Another problem is some contaminants in water put on crops can be taken up by the plants and ends up in the food. Though drinkable water isn't necessary for use on farmland.