Brake Pads

[Mark77a]

I believe Carbotechs are very hard to get here in Europe,

Nope , no problems (unless we count UK as not in Europe .. but that's a separate issue soon to be voted on in UK )

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From: Carbotech Europe Ltd [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 28 May 2015 12:53
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Re: CT109L AX6 and CT491L AX6 pads

Hi,
Sure no problems see below for prices on these.

Lotus Elise Front pads (CT109L) in AX6 @ £130+vat & shipping

Lotus Elise Rear pads (CT491L) in AX6 @ £120+vat & shipping

Shipping to most areas of Uk mainland is £10+vat

Thanks
Ian

CARBOTECH EUROPE LTD
UK

Tel- 01768 885000
Fax- 01768 894339

Carbotech Europe Ltd 2011
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+44 1768 885000 from 'Foreign lands'

Ian can either make them in UK, OR ship them from the USA (I went for 2nd option a year ago at about 10% less than prices ... about £240 all in, delivery VAT etc etc (as £ must have been higher to $ Dollar).

I also investigated getting them sent from USA - worked out slightly more due to import duties and postage.

I went for the 1521 bobcat compound, rather than AX6 - and very happy with them (there is a whole discussion on that .. so wont start again here).

 

[jimmyz80]

Just thought I'd post an update on the issue I was having with horrible rattles after installing my AX6 pads. I FINALLY got around to installing the rubber buffers. The car already had some on the bottom edge of the caliper, so I installed my set on the top edge of the caliper. This seems to reduce the amount of area the pads can move up and down while installed in the caliper, however there is still a little bit of play.

At the same time I applied a nice thick coat of Brake Quiet and let it set before reinstalling the pads. Originally I had used the aerosol stuff, but this time around I used this:

Amazon.com: CRC Disc Brake Quiet 05016, 4 Fl Oz: Automotive

Now my rattles are completely gone; the car is much more pleasant to drive. I'm not sure which of the two modifications cleared it up, or if both were needed, but I'd highly recommend both if you're having a rattle problem. Now the big question is whether the rattles will come back in time.

 

[wiztecy]

Just thought I'd post an update on the issue I was having with horrible rattles after installing my AX6 pads. I FINALLY got around to installing the rubber buffers. The car already had some on the bottom edge of the caliper, so I installed my set on the top edge of the caliper. This seems to reduce the amount of area the pads can move up and down while installed in the caliper, however there is still a little bit of play.

At the same time I applied a nice thick coat of Brake Quiet and let it set before reinstalling the pads. Originally I had used the aerosol stuff, but this time around I used this:

Amazon.com: CRC Disc Brake Quiet 05016, 4 Fl Oz: Automotive

Now my rattles are completely gone; the car is much more pleasant to drive. I'm not sure which of the two modifications cleared it up, or if both were needed, but I'd highly recommend both if you're having a rattle problem. Now the big question is whether the rattles will come back in time.

Allowing the CRC orange "goo" (found the spray type to fail too) is the *key* component when installing the CarboTechs and not having them rattle. Thanks to strider for identifying this. He pointed out earlier in this thread that if you just follow the instructions on the bottle the goo will work perfect. He also noted that the orange goo needs to set in for a specific amount of time before installing. The directions also mention that the entire back (metal) part of the pad must be covered. I ensured it was generously covered. I had the spray fail on me the 1st time. I then used the orange good, that eventually failed on one wheel. Reason being why it failed was that I didn't read the directions and failed to allow it to set / cure. That process allows the goo to become very tacky which keeps the pad firmly against the caliper / piston and allowing it to be manipulated by the rotor.

I re-installed/re-used my CarboTech AX6s when I upgraded my rotors to the Custom ones I had made up back in May. I again used the orange goo, followed the directions on the bottle and have been rattle free ever since. I've been very demanding on these brakes the majority of the time so I'm confident I'll be good to go for quite sometime.

As for the extra bumpers/pads you put in. I believe those bumpers were designed for the older Elises which didn't come with them. Lotus later added them to the calipers which our Roadsters leveraged from them. And like you, I identified we already had them installed. Did you test to ensure that both pads still float freely, moving across the caliper without it sticking? I'd be concerned with the pad wanting to catch the the bumper/caliper then prematurely wearing down the pad. But if you tested it, and as you mentioned, it took out some of the space the pad had while riding across the caliper without sticking, then you should be good to go. You possibly could ad some synthetic brake lubrication on the contact points. I do that on all my brake jobs, any point where the pad slides across the caliper (metal to metal) I add a small amount of lube to allow it to push and pull back with the least amount of resistance.

Dave who manufactured the custom rotor order I had created followed up with Carbotech on the rattle and provided the following information:


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We have had some rattling with the pads in the calipers. There has been a slight variation in the backing pad size with the Carbotech pads. My solution has been to spray the pads with Permatex Copper spray gasket sealer or a similar high temp sealer(CRC Disc Brake Quiet) to keep the pads tight against the pistons when the brakes are not engaged. Tape off pad material so no sealer gets on the pad material and make sure the sealer is dry before the pads are reinstalled.


This is not a safety issue, just an annoyance...here is a link to the product I use.


http://www.permatex.com/products-2/...-copper-spray-a-gasket-hi-temp-sealant-detail


OR


http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=05016

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[tvuolo]

I've been very demanding on these brakes the majority of the time so I'm confident I'll be good to go for quite sometime.

I've had to re-apply the front goo after each track day. Not a big deal, since I pop the tires off to adjust the suspension back to comfort, but something to note.

 

[Mark77a]

Hey @Wiztecy ... AWSOME to see you here

... REALLY REALLY missed your top, and super helpful contributions.

(some folk just dont contribute anything ! )

 

[jimmyz80]

Forgot to add my welcome back as well. It was a nice surprise to see your name pop up again. Adding the buffers on the upper sliding surface of the caliper didn't cause any binding of the pads at all. In fact they slid right in with zero force at all, and a little wiggle room to spare.

The buffer material is exactly as wide as the metal surface you stick it on, so there shouldn't be an opportunity for the pad to get hung up unless the buffer bunches up or slides over toward the rotor surface. I'll check on them in a few hundred miles. I guess my theory is that even if they don't reduce noise, the reduced pad motion relative to the piston should reduce any tendency of the piston to scrape off the brake goo from the contact area on the pad.

 

[dsm363]

Welcome back as well.


The shop that installed mine has experience with Lotus cars so thought it would work fine. They said they used lots of CRC but and getting that really loud rattling. The shop is 90 miles away so haven't had the time to go back yet.

 

[Ingineer]

I installed the CarboTechs front/rear. I didn't have any "goo" so I pried the dampers off the OEM pads and applied them to the CarboTechs. No vibration, squeals or rattles. The dampers on my OEM pads were 2 pieces of metal with goo applied between them, and goo between the last piece and the pad. 90% of the goo came off on the damper with a little slow prying. The pad upgrade made the brakes feel a little more linear and less grabby, and also eliminated all that dust I was seeing from the OEM pads. Took about 30 minutes for the whole job. Definitely recommended!

Whoops! I just noticed this post is in the Roadster board, my bad. I have a Model S. I'll leave the post as a point of reference.

 

[Mark77a]

I installed the CarboTechs front/rear. I didn't have any "goo" so I pried the dampers off the OEM pads and applied them to the CarboTechs. No vibration, squeals or rattles. The dampers on my OEM pads were 2 pieces of metal with goo applied between them, and goo between the last piece and the pad. 90% of the goo came off on the damper with a little slow prying. The pad upgrade made the brakes feel a little more linear and less grabby, and also eliminated all that dust I was seeing from the OEM pads. Took about 30 minutes for the whole job. Definitely recommended!

Whoops! I just noticed this post is in the Roadster board, my bad. I have a Model S. I'll leave the post as a point of reference.

Actually, this is what I did with the roadster when installing CarboTechs - reused the OEM thin steel shims. But with Jacking up etc took about 4 x as long

 

[wiztecy]

Actually, this is what I did with the roadster when installing CarboTechs - reused the OEM thin steel shims. But with Jacking up etc took about 4 x as long

Thank you for the warm welcome back, we have quit a unique and amazing community I must say.

Excellent point about the shims.

Here's a link to an EBC brake writeup about brake rattle. They made a point that if your car came factory with shim hardware on the pads, that you should re-use them on the new set of installed pads.

Mark, are you indicating that the Roadster pads came from the factory with the shims? I can't recall when I switched out my pads if it had the metal shims that are on the back side of the pad or not. I did not transfer the original shims to the new pads myself.

Brake Pad Rattle - EBC Brakes

As for the CRC brake goo, they indicate to use the brake goo on *non* shimmed pads. It also states its a "high temperature" film. I can't find any quantifiable data on what this temperature rating actually is.

"Disc Brake Quiet forms a water resistant, high-temperature film that absorbs noise while quieting squeaks & squeals. Specially formulated to dampen the vibrations that cause brake noise. For use on the back of non-shimmed disc pads."

Goo:
05016 -- Disc Brake Quiet, 4 Fl Oz


Spray:
05017 -- Disc Brake Quiet, 9 Wt Oz

 

[Cottonwood]

Sorry for my questions without reading through this entire thread.

I have a 2008 Roadster 1.5 in for its annual service. Tesla is telling me that my rear pads are worn out, and that new pads from Tesla are $400 plus $100 for the install. That seems pretty steep.

I would love to get better suggestions.

 

[hcsharp]

Sorry for my questions without reading through this entire thread.

I have a 2008 Roadster 1.5 in for its annual service. Tesla is telling me that my rear pads are worn out, and that new pads from Tesla are $400 plus $100 for the install. That seems pretty steep.

I would love to get better suggestions.

The general consensus in this thread and others is that you should not put the OEM pads back in even if they are willing to give them to you for free. Most of us have seen a major braking improvement from switching to Carbotech AX6 pads. They are technically a track pad but I can attest that they work way better in winter and summer than the OEM pads. You live where it's cold so you might want the Carbotech street pads that have also produced good results for a couple of owners here.

 

[BartJ]

Sorry for my questions without reading through this entire thread.

I have a 2008 Roadster 1.5 in for its annual service. Tesla is telling me that my rear pads are worn out, and that new pads from Tesla are $400 plus $100 for the install. That seems pretty steep.

I would love to get better suggestions.

Last week the SC Antwerp replaced my front discs and pads.
one of the pads was completely gone ( the inner left front pad ) and the car was making a hell of a noise even during normal driving.
While the other front pads still had more then 50% of meat left ( this where still the first pads, the car has now 38,000km), they told me that it is a known issue on roadster that one the pads sometimes sticks to the discs and wears out prematurely and that now all 4 front pads plus discs need replacement.

I received a great service , they did the diagnosis and replacement right away , working late in the evening ( I had made no appointment), but however I was charged a whopping 1080 euro's for the 4 pads & 2 discs + installation.

I'll guess that's the price for daily driving a beautifull and rare supersports car

 

[hcsharp]

Last week the SC Antwerp replaced my front discs and pads.
one of the pads was completely gone ( the inner left front pad ) and the car was making a hell of a noise even during normal driving.
While the other front pads still had more then 50% of meat left ( this where still the first pads, the car has now 38,000km), they told me that it is a known issue on roadster that one the pads sometimes sticks to the discs and wears out prematurely and that now all 4 front pads plus discs need replacement.

I received a great service , they did the diagnosis and replacement right away , working late in the evening ( I had made no appointment), but however I was charged a whopping 1080 euro's for the 4 pads & 2 discs + installation.

I'll guess that's the price for daily driving a beautifull and rare supersports car

A Porsche would have been more. A BMW would have been about the same.

 

[Marius]

I'll guess that's the price for daily driving a beautifull and rare supersports car

You are just unfortunate. First replacement of my brake pads was 2 months ago after 230.000km. Tesla started warning me I needed replacement at 100.000 km about 3 years ago already but I managed to monitor them myself.
I replaced front and back with Carbotech AX6 supplied by Carbotech Europe which is based in UK for 350 euro.
Needless to say that improvement is noticeable.

 

[tvuolo]

Sorry for my questions without reading through this entire thread.

I have a 2008 Roadster 1.5 in for its annual service. Tesla is telling me that my rear pads are worn out, and that new pads from Tesla are $400 plus $100 for the install. That seems pretty steep.

I would love to get better suggestions.

Heck, you buy the parts and bring the beer, and we can do it at my house! I also have a bleeder kit, so we can replace the brake fluid while we are at it. I just don't know where we would bed the pads. I usually do my cars' brake pads at night then take an early morning drive so I can properly bed them in.

If you have a mechanic you trust, they could do it, too. It's the easiest brake job I've ever seen. I know my mechanic would be happy to do it for me, and they know not to put the Roadster on the lift.

 

[wiztecy]

If the service told you that its a known issue that the pads stick to the disc, that's hogwash. Yes some brake pads will bind/stick due to corrosion or abnormal friction due to grit/dirt build up on the sliding surface of the brake pad plate and caliper, but I don't agree this is a known issue with the Roadster.

I ditched my OEM brake pads at 5k which went directly in the trash can and threw the lame poorly designed rust bucket set of rotors went up in my attic at 38k when I received my 2-piece custom rotors. Telsa can't pay me any sum of money to throw that crap back on my precious Roadster. My life as well other's (not to mention the Roadster's) depend on how well I can stop this vehicle and every slit second counts. When applying brakes on a car feels more like sliding on ice in a skating rink, something is seriously wrong with the setup.

Brakes are something that everyone needs to keep a sharp eye on in terms of performance, wear, and odd sounds coming from that area. Its quite easy once you get the feel of how a proper braking system should perform, to identify any faults or issues that may arise in one or multiple parts of the system such as a sticky brake pad on a caliper, before damage works its way to more expensive and integral parts of the braking system.

 

[BartJ]

I tend to agree, allthough the stopping power on my 2.5 is quite ok when the brakes are warmed-up.
but yes, the carbotechs are probably much better

Since I'm not able to work on the car by myself, like many of you here, I don't have much choice other then going to a SC.

 

[wiztecy]

The stock brakes are ok until you have to panic stop then you risk a total loss of your Roadster. And why would you want to settle for ok brakes? I suggest finding a repeatable Lotus mechanic who specializes in the Elise/Exige for your brake and suspension needs on the Roadster. There should be quite a few around you I'd think by your geographical location.

 

[Marius]

Since I'm not able to work on the car by myself, like many of you here, I don't have much choice other then going to a SC.

Replacing pads is dead easy. Every one who has some technical feeling can replace them. Just contact your local garage, order pads in UK yourself and in 1 hour all pads are replaced.
Probably you can even find videos on internet about installing. I think if I remember correctly that sector111.com in USA has somewhere a video online.