BMW folks comments on Tesla

[CTruck_BMW]

Probably nobody cares here, but wanted to hear what you all think about the conversation below in one of the BMW forums. I am at the border of switching to Tesla but seems like most folks recommends against the idea, and then i came across that topic. Let's be honest, why opinions around Tesla are always skewed towards the extreme negative except for those who currently own one?

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

g07.bimmerpost.com

 

[E90alex]

“Luxury” is a pretty subjective and relative term. But I don’t consider Tesla to be luxury based on the materials quality, fit and finish and features available.

But for people coming from a 1999 Camry, a Tesla would be luxurious.

People only consider Tesla luxury because the price is more comparable to other luxury marques rather than mainstream brands.

 

[bmah]

I predict this thread is going to generate no shortage of strong opinions. To those who would post here, please keep your comments respectful.

Thank you,

Bruce.

 

[glide]

Tesla: luxury prices without any of the features.

 

[Nickos]

I've owned two M3s and two M5s in the last ten years. When they were naturally aspirated and far unique from the regular series cars I loved them, but the last one was FI and it did nothing for me. I currently don't own a BMW and while I still think they make perfectly nice cars, I'm picking up my second Tesla, a new Model S Plaid, today. That should suffice as to my opinion on the matter.

 

[jjrandorin]

Probably nobody cares here, but wanted to hear what you all think about the conversation below in one of the BMW forums. I am at the border of switching to Tesla but seems like most folks recommends against the idea, and then i came across that topic. Let's be honest, why opinions around Tesla are always skewed towards the extreme negative except for those who currently own one?

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

g07.bimmerpost.com

So, I am not going to click a link on bimmerpost, as I am fairly sure I know what the general gist of the conversation would be (coming from almost 2 decades of BMW ownership and at least a decade of participation in BMW subforums prior to getting my Model 3.

To attempt to answer the question asked in the first post, in a general manner, my opinion is its a combination of:

1. Typical BMW Model 5 and 7 owners / buyers are looking for a more luxurious feel than Tesla vehicles provide. Teslas in general are more sparse inside, and do not have the same fit / finish of your typical BMW.

2. Many vehicle forums poo poo teslas in general as they are the standard bearer for EVs, and they dont like the idea of EVs in general through either ignorance or resistance to change.

3. The leader / CEO of Tesla is VERY "polarizing" (I am not going into it more than that, and I suggest no one else go into that more than that either, or its likely the thread devolves and @bmah would have to take some further actions)

Especially when new accounts come on a Tesla forum and ask this type of question, many times it feels like simply fishing for comments, or "trying to get conversation going" on a topic that has been discussed, and discussed, and re discussed, and re discussed, and discussed some more, so its hard to take threads like this seriously when its been discussed in some form or fashion for years.

 

[BobHinden]

My previous three cars before getting my 2008 M3LR were BMWs. I think that a lot of Tesla's sales are to former BMW and Audi owners.

I will consider another BMW once they have a good EV model and I am comfortable I can charge it on a road trip.

 

[Brass Guy]

I haven't driven a recent Model S, but I never considered my car to be a "luxury" vehicle. Back then it was marketed as a premium sedan, which I interpreted as meaning more expensive. As a (relatively) early adopter, luxury was not remotely the point of my purchase. I didn't even bother with the "tech package;" unnecessary in my view. Still no regrets.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

So, I am not going to click a link on bimmerpost, as I am fairly sure I know what the general gist of the conversation would be (coming from almost 2 decades of BMW ownership and at least a decade of participation in BMW subforums prior to getting my Model 3.

To attempt to answer the question asked in the first post, in a general manner, my opinion is its a combination of:

1. Typical BMW Model 5 and 7 owners / buyers are looking for a more luxurious feel than Tesla vehicles provide. Teslas in general are more sparse inside, and do not have the same fit / finish of your typical BMW.

2. Many vehicle forums poo poo teslas in general as they are the standard bearer for EVs, and they dont like the idea of EVs in general through either ignorance or resistance to change.

3. The leader / CEO of Tesla is VERY "polarizing" (I am not going into it more than that, and I suggest no one else go into that more than that either, or its likely the thread devolves and @bmah would have to take some further actions)

Especially when new accounts come on a Tesla forum and ask this type of question, many times it feels like simply fishing for comments, or "trying to get conversation going" on a topic that has been discussed, and discussed, and re discussed, and re discussed, and discussed some more, so its hard to take threads like this seriously when its been discussed in some form or fashion for years.

Any user account has to start from time (t=0) at some point. New users/owners/potential_buyers are those that really need all different opinions and experiences of other senior owners. If new new owners or new potential owners are going to be ignored (and all assumed to be a troll) and only senior accounts would be taken seriously, then these forums are useless. To be honest, I have always received good feedback here and on most other forums when I had a new account. I switched my fleet of vehicles several times in the past 12 years and moved from one forum to another, coming from Toyota and Ford, switching to Mbenz, and then to BMW, and now "potentially" to Tesla. All my questions and posts when I was fairly new in the (Toyota, then MBenz, and lately BMW) were taken very seriously and I felt welcomed from day 1 until the point I accumulated THOUSANDS of posts and reputation points (same treatment). It is only here on this forum wherein this is the 3rd time a user makes a comment about the account being new in an effort to diminish the value or importance of the conversation am starting in an effort to know more about the brand. Please do not personalize the issue; am simply looking to hear all different opinions and thoughts to make the best educated decision (which can only come from owners of both brands). U started from square 1 at some point, let's not forget that too.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

My previous three cars before getting my 2008 M3LR were BMWs. I think that a lot of Tesla's sales are to former BMW and Audi owners.

I will consider another BMW once they have a good EV model and I am comfortable I can charge it on a road trip.

Agreed. I would assume Tesla and BMW owners are of the same demography, mostly car enthusiast. Have you driven or tested any of the i4 or iX or iX BMW cars recently? I am really interest in hearing any experiences from Tesla owners who also then tried EV BMWs to help me know more about the experience of owning both (which is always different than renting one to test it out!).

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Tesla: luxury prices without any of the features.

Thanks; so what's the point or motivation of staying with Tesla now if other true luxury brands also started to offer EV vehicles (at least stating 2022/2023)? I have not driven i7 yet, but with the price of S and i7 being almost the same, the comparison on paper seems to lead to only one answer.... What am I missing (if any)?

 

[HenryT]

"BMW?

"Luxury?"

"That's not luxury, they can't even fart..."

 

[SilverGS]

Thanks; so what's the point or motivation of staying with Tesla now if other true luxury brands also started to offer EV vehicles (at least stating 2022/2023)? I have not driven i7 yet, but with the price of S and i7 being almost the same, the comparison on paper seems to lead to only one answer.... What am I missing (if any)?

50% of the ownership experience with an EV is the ability to take trips without any hassle (other than getting used to planning your stops to include with food breaks etc).

Right now only Tesla offers that relatively painless experience. Despite other public chargers ramping up, there's still no comparison to the Tesla supercharging network.

 

[father_of_6]

@CTruck_BMW - Howdy. I hope none of the responses here seem inflammatory, none of it's personal and people on these forums tend to be rather helpful.

I second what some of the others have said. I've driven mostly mainstream vehicles... Chevy / Ford, etc. My model 3 doesn't necessarily feel "luxury" to me, but it's head and shoulders above everything else I've owned... and I'm not sure fit and finish or anything else to do with the interior has anything to do with it.

To be honest, I didn't even much like the look of the Model 3. It's grown on me though.

With 100% certainty, the reason I like my Model 3 so much is simply that it's an EV, and Tesla happens to be ahead in so many areas of EV production / technology. Going from a 20 year old beater to a new car, the first things one notices are how much quieter it is and how much more acceleration it has... EVs have both of those factors in spades and will still have them when they're 15 years old and rusty, unlike ICE vehicles.

Tesla has taken some risks, and many of them have paid off. They've also made some mistakes, and some of those mistakes they're yet to resolve. Everyone's experience will be different.

Here are some of the things Tesla has done right (my opinions obviously):

• Going all in on electric vehicles and building their own reliable charging network.
• Replacing a staggering number of physical controls with one touchscreen interface. Dashboards full of knobs and buttons make me sick now
• Replacing the traditional dealership model with no-haggle online ordering. Why did it take so long for car buying to enter the 21st century?
• Production innovations like large castings, vertical integration, and doing away with "year models" for processes that allow them to innovate quickly.
• Spending much more on R&D and much less on advertising.
• Trying to reduce the need for service instead of making it part of your revenue model.
• Thermal management.
• Over-the-air software updates.
• Getting rid of keys.
• World class drivetrain.

With any brand though, there will be loyalists. Certainly there are loyalists on every forum that will throw shade at Tesla.

What I recommend is... drive one for yourself. Maybe even rent one for a week.

For sure, eventually all auto manufacturers will level the playing field with electric vehicles. At that time, perhaps Tesla will be dog food. For at least a few more years though, no one else competes. Not BMW, not Toyota, not GM, not Ford, not Rivian, not Lucid, not VW, not Hyundai. None of them. They might compete in one area (e.g. style or price), but overall they're all years behind Tesla. My two cents.

 

[Sanderpman12]

All I’m saying is this …

You can buy a p85 S for under 30k and it’s over 400 hp and relatively low maintenance compared to any bmw in that range …..

That says it all

 

[ucmndd]

Teslas aren't luxury cars. Just because it has a premium price doesn't make that comparison or expectation valid. From what I've seen they've never claimed or tried to be a "luxury" brand.

I think their vision is a "premium" brand with a well-sorted, integrated experience. I don't think they're there yet, but they're closer than any other EV maker when it comes to the full ownership experience (charging, energy management, user experience, performance, efficiency, etc).

 

[Mr.Stark]

Coming from a Mazda CX-5 turbo sig which costs similar to a M3, and perhaps even more expensive if you consider the tax credits, state incentives, cost of ownership It was a significant upgrade for me in terms of luxury. I test drove the 330e and the i4 and I agree they feel nicer Inside but the price-value-performance made no sense to me.

I cannot comment on the more expensive S/X but for what I upgraded from and the tech it packs, I do not feel like I have downgraded in any aspect.(maybe ventilated seats but never used in upstate NY). In fact, the safety and stock driver assistance are miles ahead.

All the polarizing opinions from other forums should be taken for what they are for, opinions. Other manufactures cannot currently compete with the refined EV experience that Tesla can provide. I certainly think that is a total advantage Tesla can flex for as long as they can.

 

[FastEddieB]

"Luxury" is maybe not the right word to apply to Teslas.

I think it's more "understated elegance", and it suits me quite well. Then again, I was never the audience for Ricardo Montalban hawking "The finest Corinthian leather" either.

 

[jjrandorin]

Any user account has to start from time (t=0) at some point. New users/owners/potential_buyers are those that really need all different opinions and experiences of other senior owners. If new new owners or new potential owners are going to be ignored (and all assumed to be a troll) and only senior accounts would be taken seriously, then these forums are useless. To be honest, I have always received good feedback here and on most other forums when I had a new account. I switched my fleet of vehicles several times in the past 12 years and moved from one forum to another, coming from Toyota and Ford, switching to Mbenz, and then to BMW, and now "potentially" to Tesla. All my questions and posts when I was fairly new in the (Toyota, then MBenz, and lately BMW) were taken very seriously and I felt welcomed from day 1 until the point I accumulated THOUSANDS of posts and reputation points (same treatment). It is only here on this forum wherein this is the 3rd time a user makes a comment about the account being new in an effort to diminish the value or importance of the conversation am starting in an effort to know more about the brand. Please do not personalize the issue; am simply looking to hear all different opinions and thoughts to make the best educated decision (which can only come from owners of both brands). U started from square 1 at some point, let's not forget that too.

Yes, absolutely. Everyone starts somewhere, and I didnt mean to imply anything different. I just find a pretty large difference in someone saying something like "Hi all, I am thinking about buying one of these cars, can you tell me some things you like and dont like about them (for example)" and something like "Hi all, can you tell me why all the people on this other board say your car sucks?"

It drives a different discussion.

 

[Crutonius]

Thanks; so what's the point or motivation of staying with Tesla now if other true luxury brands also started to offer EV vehicles (at least stating 2022/2023)? I have not driven i7 yet, but with the price of S and i7 being almost the same, the comparison on paper seems to lead to only one answer.... What am I missing (if any)?

The Supercharger network. There's other reasons but they pale in comparison to this one thing. There are no other fast charging networks that are reliable enough that you would trust them for a road trip.

Regarding "luxury". Eh, not my priority. I've test driven a Mercedes EQS. The interior is nicer but it's not like it makes an MS look like a Chrysler k car.