Blind spot hardware changes pending?

[richrootes]

I have no use for blind spot monitoring. What would be nice - and any UK owners out there might be able to help me out here - is a Convex Driver's Door Mirror (or near side over there)

I don't understand why you have to have a plain mirror on one side, and a convex - with the obligatory idiot warning of course - on the other.

I retrofitted Convex mirrors on my last two cars (Audis) and as mentioned in the posts above - properly adjusted mirrors let you see all you need to

Happy Easter!

 

[green1]

We'll agree to disagree then. The notification in the dash is utterly and completely useless to me.

While I agree that this is not an ideal situation, I'm sure you could train yourself to use the dash sensors, so reliability is always the most important part (don't bother to train yourself if it isn't going to be reliable enough to trust. )

- - - Updated - - -

I have no use for blind spot monitoring. What would be nice - and any UK owners out there might be able to help me out here - is a Convex Driver's Door Mirror (or near side over there)

I don't understand why you have to have a plain mirror on one side, and a convex - with the obligatory idiot warning of course - on the other.

I retrofitted Convex mirrors on my last two cars (Audis) and as mentioned in the posts above - properly adjusted mirrors let you see all you need to

Happy Easter!

if you have added convex, then good on you. If you have not, there is no adjustment possible that will eliminate a blind spot, only move it to a spot even harder to see by shoulder checking (and worse yet, give a false sense of security that is likely to convince you that shoulder checking isn't needed and probably cause a collision some time)

As for the legally mandated "convex"on the passenger side, it's actually the worst of both worlds, not convex enough to be useful, but just convex enough to distort your sense of distance (hence the ridiculous warnings)

I would much prefer the Japanese methods with true convex on both sides (I've had those on both of my last 2 vehicles and they really do compelling eliminate blind spots, it's too bad FMVSS and CMVSS won't catch up to the developed world in motor vehicle safety standards.

 

[dirkhh]

While I agree that this is not an ideal situation, I'm sure you could train yourself to use the dash sensors, so reliability is always the most important part (don't bother to train yourself if it isn't going to be reliable enough to trust. )

Sorry - this is what I just don't get. Really, I should train myself to look in an unintuitive spot for a critical warning? And then when I drive a different car I look at the dash before changing lanes to do... what?

Wait - WHAT?

This is a car. It needs to drive like a car and behave like a car and someone needs to be able to drive it without having to be "retrained".

 

[gpetti]

Good point, and I like the vibrational feedback idea, maybe they could extend the steering wheel vibration somehow. As for your suggestions to Tesla, to whom did you send them? I find that unless you have a way to get beyond the first level folks at companies, suggestions go nowhere. It's like submitted a resume directly to HR

There are a number of good ideas here - all would work for me without needing the lights on the side mirrors.
I had an unexpected demonstration of how weak the current offering is.
I actually did a blind spot check but unfortunately did a sloppy one with out really taking in that I hadn't seen much more than the pillar owing to the seat being in a different position than normal. The car was not visible in the rear view or side mirror and I didn't have the rear camera active. I signaled to lane change and started to make the change. It didn't occur to me to look for the blind spot indicator and I certainly didn't notice it. As I was making the change, I glimpsed the vehicle in the blind spot and swerved back - just as they honked the horn too. That is when the audible alert sounded and then I saw the double red lines. Normally I make a point of maintaining situational awareness so this is a very rare occurrence and thus was all the more unexpected. This is exactly the type of situation where I would like the warning to kick in as a back up for occasions where my concentration has lapsed somehow.
I expect that the new interface will help with the visuals but the audible and vibration suggestions seem very helpful. With the current visual, it would also be better (IMO) if the lines were at the top left and top right, and colored red, that would be a start.

 

[fadkar]

Will we ever be happy with our cars? If people had their mirrors PROPERLY adjusted there would be no need for "blind spot" warning because a properly adjusted mirror eliminates any blind spot. There may be an indicator on future mirrors but the truth is it's going to get to the point where looking over the shoulder will create more of a safety hazard then keeping your head straight... which is kind of the point. We are almost there now. The Model S will force us to change COMPLETELY how we look at driving.

I've tried driving with the mirrors adjusted the "right" way but I just couldn't get used to it! Since they are facing more outwards than the "wrong" way, you can also see cars that are 2 lanes away from you. That makes it very confusing, especially at night because it can get tricky to tell if that car is one lane over or two.

 

[zzzzdoc]

If they were going to change it to any other location, the place to put it would be the rear camera as that's what you check before the head check.

I couldn't agree more. I was about to post the same thing. I like just looking at the rear view camera before changing lanes. I got used to this in my Lambo (whose blind spots were enormous). One look, dual sets of information, safe lane change.

They also need to be less subtle. The left or right side of the rear view camera with a vertical line or car symbol that's white, or turns to red if you're moving towards it would be far better than the present implementation.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the number of people using the rear camera all the time is small. Makes me motion sick.

Well, count me as one of those who uses it all the time. I have on several cars, and couldn't live without it. I consider it one of the most important safety features in a car.

 

[trils0n]

Well, count me as one of those who uses it all the time. I have on several cars, and couldn't live without it. I consider it one of the most important safety features in a car.

After over 2 years of owning the Model S, the always on rear camera is one of my favorite, and essential features. I call it my fourth mirror. I've added it to my standard mirror scan: Left Mirror-> Center Mirror-> Right Mirror-> Screen, then start over, nice loop every few seconds to keep track of cars around me. Besides the throttle response/one pedal driving, the rear camera is the feature I miss most when driving other cars.

I don't have autopilot hardware on my car, but the dash check for blind spot might be an extra step in my routine. I might be able to integrate it, but mirror would probably be the ideal location. Although if they add the mirror, no reason to remove it from the dash, if you happen to check your speedometer frequently it would be useful to have some extra at-a-glance info.

 

[OrlandoKen]

I have a Chayenne that has light in mirror. i too vote for audible.

 

[Scotty]

I agree that what's currently deployed doesn't measure up. The thin white arc is barely noticeable, and checking my mirrors and looking over my shoulder takes my eyes off the road long enough; I then need to look down and view the dash to see if the white arc is lit? Furthermore, if the nav screen is up on the left, and is showing the white background, forget about seeing the white arc.
I also realize that my blind spot might be hiding a rapidly accelerating and lane-changing vehicle. I might have done that myself a few times, in my MS. I also am concerned that other drivers might not appreciate the accelerating capabilities of the MS, and might miss me as I change lanes and accelerate into their blind spot (But that's a different issue).
How about a much bigger BRIGHT RED flashing turn signal icon (maybe 3 or 4 times the normal size icon) that would change from normal when the blind spot warning is triggered.
An audible, adjustable volume chime would also help. I would prefer it only work in conjunction with the turn signal switch activation, as I do see the white arc activate as vehicles are in the blind spot, but it only really affects me if I'm going to change lanes; any other time tends to be crying wolf.

 

[billarnett]

I would prefer it only work in conjunction with the turn signal switch activation, as I do see the white arc activate as vehicles are in the blind spot, but it only really affects me if I'm going to change lanes; any other time tends to be crying wolf.

I, on the other hand, would rather the opposite. I want the information before I start signaling. The last thing I want to do is
alarm the other driver just because I haven't yet finished checking. The signal means an INTENT to turn not a REQUEST. But I do think I would prefer the indicator to be on the outside mirrors or the A pillars. OTOH, I don't think we should get to worked up about this as it will no doubt change radically with 7.0. What we are seeing now is just a temporary hack. I hope

 

[NoMoGas]

The only way to eliminate the blind spot its too replace the mirrors with convex, unfortunately despite being much safer, it's also illegal in most jurisdictions (Japan at least gets this one right! )

Any other adjustment, especially the oft touted solution of moving the mirrors further out, is extremely dangerous as it doesn't eliminate the blind spots, it just moves them to a spot that's even harder to see (further back and closer in to the car)

Without a change of legislation, the "traditional" way of seeing the mirrors, combined with proper shoulder checking is the safest way to drive. I also advocate stick on convex mirrors as a good partial solution.

As for blind spot warnings from tesla, I think the inside of the A pillar is likely the best spot, after watching a video of the current ones, they're not a very good implementation.

agree to disagree. Maybe it's the IFR pilot in me but I trust the technology. The danger is in looking over the shoulder straight into a rear pillar, and the car in front stopping. If mirrors are set properly and sonar working you barely need to move your head.

- - - Updated - - -

I've tried driving with the mirrors adjusted the "right" way but I just couldn't get used to it! Since they are facing more outwards than the "wrong" way, you can also see cars that are 2 lanes away from you. That makes it very confusing, especially at night because it can get tricky to tell if that car is one lane over or two.

lol I get it. that is why people choose to place them where they can see their own car as visual reference (the wrong way). Just get used to looking at your instrument panel first seeing the lane is clear signal, check your mirror and go. In order for them to not be on your sensor that have to be just about parallel to your passenger side door. So even the mirror in the wrong position would work just fine now. It's a different kind of car and we have to get used to driving in a completely different way

 

[jerry33]

Will we ever be happy with our cars? If people had their mirrors PROPERLY adjusted there would be no need for "blind spot" warning because a properly adjusted mirror eliminates any blind spot.

On my Tesla, the side mirrors don't angle out far enough to adjust them properly. The camera has a much better view.

 

[green1]

agree to disagree. Maybe it's the IFR pilot in me but I trust the technology.

No, i don't agree to disagree. I will never agree to disagree when people are advocating a dangerous solution. This isn't about trusting technology, this is about a false sense of security when you create a new, and very difficult to check blind spot, and then refuse to check it because you have that false sense of security and claim your new blind slot doesn't exist.

There is a very good reason that no driver's manual anywhere advocates for this dangerous solution, it is simply not safe, and it causes collisions and complacency.

Let me try this another way, for your "IFR Pilot" comment about technology. Your radar has a gaping hole in it's coverage, you however can adjust where that hole is. There is no way to eliminate it, only to choose where the hole is. You can choose to place the coverage hole in a location that you can easily see by turning your head and looking out the window, or you can position the coverage hole such that you'd have to turn your head almost all the way around and glue your face to the side window to see the missing spot.
The size of your blind spot doesn't change, only the location.

Personally, I want my blind spot somewhere I can easily check with my eyes. You however are advocating NEVER CHECKING IT! This is irresponsible, and highly dangerous. This gets people KILLED, especially pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, those who have the least protection against your vehicle.

 

[dirkhh]

No, i don't agree to disagree. I will never agree to disagree when people are advocating a dangerous solution. This isn't about trusting technology, this is about a false sense of security when you create a new, and very difficult to check blind spot, and then refuse to check it because you have that false sense of security and claim your new blind slot doesn't exist.

There is a very good reason that no driver's manual anywhere advocates for this dangerous solution, it is simply not safe, and it causes collisions and complacency.

Completely agree. IFR works because ATC ensures proper separation. Not looking over your shoulder will get you serious culpability in most jurisdictions. And given how often the arcs are wrong on my car I want to make sure I drive no where near people who think they are flying a plane instead of driving a car.

And sorry. If Tesla suddenly decides that we have to learn how to drive this car because safety critical features work very differently from what drivers are used to, then they already have lost. All it takes is a fatal accident where the car is blamed. Insurance rate goes through the roof, people stop buying, bye bye Tesla.

 

[mknox]

I think the number of people using the rear camera all the time is small. Makes me motion sick.

I suppose I could get used to it, but my issue with the rear camera is that the view is way too much of a fish-eye view for normal driving. I can have a car behind me so close that I can't see its headlights in my rear view mirror, but on the camera it looks like it's really far back. If I relied on it for lane changing and such, I fear I would be cutting in way too close based on how far the other car looks on the camera. The wide angle view is great, however, for inching back into tight parking spots.

 

[beeeerock]

OTOH, I don't think we should get to worked up about this as it will no doubt change radically with 7.0. What we are seeing now is just a temporary hack. I hope

I think you're right. If the car is going to self-drive, I don't think it's going to follow a semi up the hill in the slow lane because it doesn't know how to change lanes. Blind spot is likely the most valuable sensor feature for real-world driving at speeds where mistakes are life-altering. Great that you can see how many cm's before you impact the garage wall, but blind spot really counts. Given all the other technologies in use, I can't believe this feature won't be given more consideration... likely with a variety of driver-selectable options varying from 'do nothing', all the way to 'prevent lane change'... with various bells and whistles in between.

 

[Doug_G]

I think the number of people using the rear camera all the time is small. Makes me motion sick.

I use it all the time. No one in this town ever lets you merge into their lane. When you turn on your blinker the guy behind you in the lane always floors the accelerator. So I use it all the time when merging.

 

[Stoneymonster]

I use it all the time. No one in this town ever lets you merge into their lane. When you turn on your blinker the guy behind you in the lane always floors the accelerator. So I use it all the time when merging.

I probably could get used to it, but I really don't like visual distractions in my peripheral vision, aside from the motion sickness. Maybe if it were smaller I think the wide angle doesn't help with my problem. I also have the same confusion mknox mentioned with distance.

- - - Updated - - -

, all the way to 'prevent lane change'... with various bells and whistles in between.

I was thinking about that. In an ideal world, where the sensor was foolproof (and no sensor is foolproof), is the steering totally fly-by-wire such that it could prevent you from turning the wheel? I kinda doubt it...

 

[dirkhh]

I use it all the time. No one in this town ever lets you merge into their lane. When you turn on your blinker the guy behind you in the lane always floors the accelerator. So I use it all the time when merging.

I never use it. Won't claim it makes me motion sick, but it's definitely distracting and I do drive other cars so re-training myself for this wouldn't be smart.
And I hate driving in cities where everyone's an a** - here in Portland people generally let you merge. And those few who don't... well they tend to be stunned how quickly this big red car can move forward

 

[beeeerock]

I was thinking about that. In an ideal world, where the sensor was foolproof (and no sensor is foolproof), is the steering totally fly-by-wire such that it could prevent you from turning the wheel? I kinda doubt it...

I was thinking more in terms of the lane assist function I was playing with in the Audi a few weekends ago. With the TACC engaged, it actually exhibits the basics of self-drive... but knows if it hasn't received input from the driver and complains!

The Lane Assist watches the lane lines and keeps the car running in the centre. If you approach a lane edge, say with the intent to change lanes, and you haven't engaged the turn signal, it provides some resistance and vibration in the steering wheel. You can easily push through it, but you'd have to be really out of it to not recognize it was telling you something.

I don't know if the Blind Spot system tied into the steering as well, but it does turn on an amber light on the mirror edge. I wasn't going to test it THAT far...